Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Depechemode1993 on January 04, 2009, 08:40:26 PM
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So I am definitely going to Rothbury this year. Maybe not all 3 days but at least one and I want to get some open-taping under my belt. So I guess with a Mic Stand what is the best stand for DPA 4060s and what type of accessories would I need to get this done? As far as getting the mics clipped to the stand etc.? thanks for reading everyone.
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So I am definitely going to Rothbury this year. Maybe not all 3 days but at least one and I want to get some open-taping under my belt. So I guess with a Mic Stand what is the best stand for DPA 4060s and what type of accessories would I need to get this done? As far as getting the mics clipped to the stand etc.? thanks for reading everyone.
Stealth: hat (over temples)
Open: jecklin disk
The key is mics should give both amplitide and phase cues. Amplitude comes from the disk (or head) shadowing one mic. Phase comes from the spatial separation of the mics. Combining cues will give most pleasing image.
Richard
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so can I make my own Jecklin disc? I see you can buy them from core-sound for $249! :o its just a piece of foam it looks like? What type of stand would you think is good for this type of mic?
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I run my 4060's outside split about 5 feet. So you don't need a stand, you just need to attach them to 2 other peoples stands!
Instead of a stand get the extensions for the cables. This will allow you to split the mics 5 feet and still reach the ground.
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I run my 4060's outside split about 5 feet. So you don't need a stand, you just need to attach them to 2 other peoples stands!
Instead of a stand get the extensions for the cables. This will allow you to split the mics 5 feet and still reach the ground.
I have the extension cable but what if I am the only person at a show and want to run a stand? Really I have a show coming up on the 13th (Feb.) and I want to run a stand for the show because I know there will be like 50 people there and I will be the only one taping. lol!
I could see like getting a stand, then I am guessing get a T-Bar? (is that right) and put them like 3 ft. apart? I dunno, never had a mic stand and don't even know where to start! I am not thinking of ever running these mics higher than 7 ft.
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I made a Jecklin from an old LP covered with foam and then fake lambs wool. It is easy. I stuck a bolt through the center and at the correct distance from the Jecklin surface I placed the mics, angled as directed by Jecklin. It works well.
I a not a fan of wide spacing as it will give a "hole in the middle" effect. I rely on Williams paper posted here under "Stereo Zoom" in the microphone section. Her arrived at his conclusions through numerous repeated tests. He is considered quite valid by professionals. As usual, YMMV. 8)
Those are supposed to be great mics. Good luck.
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Go to ebay and search for "light stand" you will need some way of keep the mics on the stand something like this might work http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-GNA-3 it's what i run with my mini mics but i have never done used it with dpas so i don't know for sure if it will work.
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J-Disc info:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,67897.msg912159.html
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Instead of a jecklin disk, I saw a TSer use a round nerf ball on top of his stand. It mimmicked a human head and is easy to put together.
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Gaff tape. ;D
These mics are so small & light you can do all sorts of things.
TV antennas-
Like Moke mentioned, you can't go wrong with a telescopic TV antenna for the little DPA mini mics. It's completely adjustable and collapses down to a nice small package. You can even set everything up beforehand and leave the mics attached for super quick setup and break-down. I tape the mics on the ends with gaffer tape. You can attach the antenna to a light stand, someone else's stand, a pole, railing, etc. You can build a bracket, clamp it, or just gaff tape the thing to the stand or a pole since the mics and antenna are so light. Most TV antennas allow up to a 5'+ spacing between mics but I typically keep it around 3'. If you can listen on headphones while adjusting the spacing you can dial it in nicely.. or use the Stereo Zoom charts like Boojum mentioned.. or just go with 3'. Depends a bit on were you want to set up in the venue and how much effort you care to make to tweak perfect sound. The 3' method works from 'the section' outside all the way up to stage-lip.
Put it wherever it sounds best and where you can get away with it without disturbing people. One nice thing is that A-B spacing those tiny mics on the thin antenna can be nearly invisible, especially if you use a black antenna instead of chrome or cover the chrome with gaff tape. The limited sight-line blocking can be one advantage over using a baffle but generally, If I have to choose between a baffle or more space between the mics (within reason) I choose space.. that's just personal preference.
Baffles-
I tend to prefer the results with the Jecklin only from very close to the source. Same goes for the head-size nerfball baffles (that are an even bigger sight-line blocker) but YMMV. If you want to experiment with these things you can add a disk between the mics on the TV antenna and you'll have the ability to play with placing the mics flush on the face of the disk or spaced from it. I mostly use the center baffles only as a way to record when I can't space the mics enough, because if I space the mics were I like them I'd need a gigantic baffle. Because I value the spacing aspect so much, I more often use small sphere baffles on the ends of the tv antennas to impart some high frequency directionality. That's considerably more complicated than a Jecklin disk but there are some details in the thread linked below.
The back wall-
Space them and tape them to the back wall to boundary mount them and significantly cut down on the reverberation pickup at that distance. This can work really well for 'back of hall' locations and can often sound better than a stand in the center or back half of the room. Likewise you can sometimes tape the mics to the little wall in the front of a raised soundboard location. I did this outdoors on a wall once to good effect.
Welding rod 'stalks'-
If you know you'll be taping from the stage lip for an instrumental or non-amplified act you can get your mics closer to where you want them nearly invisibly by gaff taping the leads to straightened wire coat hangers or the equivalent (I use 3' aluminum TIG welding rods). Bend them so that they arc up and toward the band on stage, away from the crowd, space them appropriately and tape them to the stage-lip. They are so thin that they are nearly invisible even though they are in the direct line of sight. Another bonus is they just wiggle a bit if bumped on stage.
I recently expanded that idea by using four 4060s across the front of the stage. I had a spacing of about 4' between each mic with a flanking left, center left-right pair, and a flanking right, 12' across the entire stage.
I just posted details of the above method here (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96009.msg1539955.html#msg1539955). The other methods (TV antennas, poles, stands, big and small baffles, etc) are covered earlier in the same thread. All of the techniques I've posted about in that thread so far use 4060s. They really lend themselves to unusual mic stands.
[edited for spelling and verbosity, and it's still wordy. Geesh!]
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Here's how I ran my 4061's at Hardly Strictly. I planned to actually wear the hat, but for the set I was taping in the pic below, everyone was seated, the audience was quiet and the hat worked great as a baffle. Probably not ideal for Rothbury. Since the mics are so small, you could probably build a 4 or 6-inch foam j-disc that would work great and be pretty low profile.
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo298/bevinowens/2008/PA050394-1.jpg)
I used to run my Sonic Studios DSM-6p's on the eyeglass legs of a Mr. Potato Head mounted on a stand. He looked fantastic flying with all those killer rigs at Red Rocks. But if you do that at Rothbury, I want credit for the idea ;)
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I used to run my Sonic Studios DSM-6p's on the eyeglass legs of a Mr. Potato Head mounted on a stand. He looked fantastic flying with all those killer rigs at Red Rocks. But if you do that at Rothbury, I want credit for the idea ;)
Please tell me he had the eyes, nose, ears, etc. :)
Have any pics?
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I used to run my Sonic Studios DSM-6p's on the eyeglass legs of a Mr. Potato Head mounted on a stand. He looked fantastic flying with all those killer rigs at Red Rocks. But if you do that at Rothbury, I want credit for the idea ;)
Please tell me he had the eyes, nose, ears, etc. :)
Have any pics?
Oh yeah, he was fully decked out, wearing his binaural mics on his glasses (as Guysonic intended), and flying over a pair of Nak 300 guns. He was wearing everything but the feet, as I used that hole to mount him to the stand. I've got an old photo print somewhere - I'll dig that out and scan it. Hell, I need to dig Mr. Potato Head out himself, and take him to a show.
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I used to run my Sonic Studios DSM-6p's on the eyeglass legs of a Mr. Potato Head mounted on a stand. He looked fantastic flying with all those killer rigs at Red Rocks. But if you do that at Rothbury, I want credit for the idea ;)
Its already done. I just went out and bought a Mr. Potato Head from Target. ;D Nice idea and I cannot wait to run this later this month!
But I still don't know what stand to get for this and what accessories I need to finish off the project? I am just lost when I look at B&H photo... ???
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The Russett Mr. Potato Head can't hold a candle to the Red Nordland boiling Potato Head for sonic flavor, but I prefer the Peruvian Blue Head for its airy transparency. The regular plastic head just sounds mashed.
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The Russett Mr. Potato Head can't hold a candle to the Red Nordland boiling Potato Head for sonic flavor, but I prefer the Peruvian Blue Head for its airy transparency. The regular plastic head just sounds mashed.
???
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The Russett Mr. Potato Head can't hold a candle to the Red Nordland boiling Potato Head for sonic flavor, but I prefer the Peruvian Blue Head for its airy transparency. The regular plastic head just sounds mashed.
You're cracking my head off here!
RyanJ, as for the mount, I'll try to dig the little guy out, take some pics and show you what I did. As I recall, I had some sort of cap that screwed down onto my mic stand threads and I drilled a hole in the center of the cap and stuck a small bolt up through the middle. Then I used a washer and wing-nut inside Mr. P to secure him to the screw which I ran through the foot hole. Worked well, even in the wind.
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I really didn't mean to hijack this thread with a discussion about Mr. Potato Head, but he really does make a fun mount for your DPA 406x or other small mics.
Here he is at a Phish show at Red Rocks in '95, wearing my Sonic Studios DSM-6p's (w/extra windscreens). We were mixing the Sonics with the Nak guns through a Radio Shack 4-channel mixer (ah, the old days). Those tapes actually turned out OK. The Sonics were made to wear on eyeglasses, so it was a good thing Mr. P doesn't have 20/20 vision.
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo298/bevinowens/misc/MrPotatoHeadRedRocks951.jpg)
And in action again at the String Cheese show at the Rio Hotel in Vegas, Halloween 2002. He's not wearing any mics this time - just representing for my friend's Schoeps..
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo298/bevinowens/misc/MrPotatoHeadRioVegas951.jpg)
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omg! thats awesome!
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I love that top picture, even better with the old film coloration and the sunglassed dude.
But I had no idea Mr.P could ski-
(http://www.gregcrocker.org/Ski_Jumping.jpg)
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo298/bevinowens/misc/MrPotatoHeadRioVegas951.jpg)
(http://mystarbucks.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/sumo-ski-jumping.jpg)
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Correction - the Red Rox pic is from Phish's 4-day run in '96. That sunglassed dude is Brett R. from Albuquerque, who isn't on this board but probably has some friends around here. We just call him "Taper Brett" down here in New Mexico. He's a primary contributor to our local gear-loaner program in Albuquerque. Great guy for sure - let's me use his fancy gear from time to time. Those sunglasses are classic - I should ask to borrow those some time, too.
The ski shots are awesome! I was gonna dig Mr. P out for a show tonight in Santa Fe, but I might just wait until Sunday and take him skiing instead.
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OK HERE IS THE ONE AND ONLY MR. P HEAD FLYIN' HIGH AT BONNAROO!!!!
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I used to run my Sonic Studios DSM-6p's on the eyeglass legs of a Mr. Potato Head mounted on a stand. He looked fantastic flying with all those killer rigs at Red Rocks. But if you do that at Rothbury, I want credit for the idea ;)
Its already done. I just went out and bought a Mr. Potato Head from Target. ;D Nice idea and I cannot wait to run this later this month!
But I still don't know what stand to get for this and what accessories I need to finish off the project? I am just lost when I look at B&H photo... ???
Probably more than you need, but if you want a traditional style "mic stand" as opposed to the excellent TV antenna idea, there are options like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AlienBees-13-foot-Heavy-Duty-Light-Stand-LS3900_W0QQitemZ200356828122QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea63293da&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
I bought one similar and have no complaints.
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Gaff tape. ;D
The back wall-
Space them and tape them to the back wall to boundary mount them and significantly cut down on the reverberation pickup at that distance. This can work really well for 'back of hall' locations and can often sound better than a stand in the center or back half of the room. Likewise you can sometimes tape the mics to the little wall in the front of a raised soundboard location. I did this outdoors on a wall once to good effect.
[edited for spelling and verbosity, and it's still wordy. Geesh!]
Those are great ideas! Question about the "back wall" method - does it matter how the mics are facing on the wall? I.E., does it make any diff if they are aimed up, down, or sideways? I realize that they are omnidirectional mics, so the answer should be no, but I'm considering trying this so thought I'd ask....
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For quick and dirty boundary layer work a sticky putty like the Brit Blu-Tack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Tack) is very good. I am going to find the US equivalent of it. It can also be used to stick the mics to an instrument, or anything, even a potato, I suppose. ;o)
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Question about the "back wall" method - does it matter how the mics are facing on the wall? I.E., does it make any diff if they are aimed up, down, or sideways? I realize that they are omnidirectional mics, so the answer should be no, but I'm considering trying this so thought I'd ask....
Technically, they should be mounted flush in the wall facing out. The rubber DPA boundary mounts place the mics behind a small opening flush in the face of the mount, which then smoothly blends into the wall surface at the edges - effectively forming a shallow mound on the wall with a hole in it. But these mics are so small that just taping them to the wall is 'close enough' to flush and their orientation doesn't really matter.