Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: mrmojorisen on January 05, 2009, 10:28:29 AM
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Hi just bought the Edirol R-09HR today and am wanting too pick up a good mic and pre amp thats ideal for this recorder.
Any help would be great thanks.
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What type of recording are you planning on doing the most? Amplified music? Nature? If music open or stealth? What kind of budget are you looking at? The more info we have the better we can help. Also this is a highly personal opinion so before you invest in anything make sure to listen to samples made with the mic in question to see how it sounds to YOUR ears. Keep in mind the R-09HR has high quality built in preamp (there are threads on here regarding this so search around) so you might be able to use a battery box and buy higher quality mics by using the internal at first and upgrading to an external later.
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Mics and how they're being used are most important to your specific sound interests.
So don't be shy about talking particulars to what you're doing for getting appropriate suggestions on this board.
Technical details about this excellent model deck are in a review on my site at: www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm)
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First off thanks for the replys.
I shall be mainly recording loud rock concerts at big & small concert halls in stealth mode.
I want to get the best possible recording and am happy paying for the best mic set up to run with my new recorder.
The set up i have been looking at is CHURCH-AUDIO STC-9000 so do you guys think that is the way too go.
I am not the best when it comes to all the techy stuff and am just a music fan who wants to listen back ta the gigs i attend.
I have been using the zoom h4 with a bat box and mic a pal made for me but being honest i have never liked the recordings using that set up.
I dont like my recordings to be bass heavy and thats all the zoom seemed to produce in small venu's and it has spoiled a few off my efforts.
Now my zoom got damaged on new years eve at a gig so am finished with that and am wanting the best set up possibly with my new machine.
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I want to get the best possible recording and am happy paying for the best mic set up to run with my new recorder.
That statement will get you in a lot of trouble! but if thats the case, many folks around here will tell you to use DPA 4060/4061 microphones. I can't exactly remember what ones are omnis.
Richard will tell you to try the countryman b3 microphones
Guy Sonic will recommend his microphones or perhaps core sound microphones
I will recommend church audio CA14 omini microphones for starting out and possibly upgrade to the CAFS.
Who did I miss? :P ::)
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The last thing you need for your interests especially with this model deck is an external preamplifier.
Just using a properly powered mic set into the deck's mic input is all that's needed.
True to the last poster's comment, suggest considering the ultimate 2-piece stxxlth rig using DSM-6S/EL mic +R-09hHR (MOD-4 upgraded) depicted with samples at this TS link: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,83254.0/all.html (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,83254.0/all.html)
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Well...I think there is a DPA4061 (mics) > DPA MMA6000 rig for sale in the Yard Sale.
I can't imagine you'd be disapointed with 4061>MMA6000>R-09HR. That's a pretty bad ass stealth setup IMO. Very small and sounds fantastic. You certainly could get better, but then it gets a little larger and a lot more expensive.
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..I dont like my recordings to be bass heavy..
DPA 4060/1 are a great mics but they do not roll off any off the bottom end. If you are recording typical amplified rock type music in venues that have the subwoofers turned up so the audience 'feels it'. You will need to eq that bass down in your recordings (and perhaps bump up the trebble a db or two). If you don't care to do that, you may prefer a microphone that naturally rolls off in response to the bottom octaves and captures less bass to begin with.
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..I dont like my recordings to be bass heavy..
If you don't care to do that, you may prefer a microphone that naturally rolls off in response to the bottom octaves and captures less bass to begin with.
That is what i prefer as i said am not up on all the techy stuff so i am just looking for the complete package that will give me a decent recording.
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First off thanks for the replys.
I shall be mainly recording loud rock concerts at big & small concert halls in stealth mode.
I want to get the best possible recording and am happy paying for the best mic set up to run with my new recorder.
The set up i have been looking at is CHURCH-AUDIO STC-9000 so do you guys think that is the way too go.
I am not the best when it comes to all the techy stuff and am just a music fan who wants to listen back ta the gigs i attend.
I have been using the zoom h4 with a bat box and mic a pal made for me but being honest i have never liked the recordings using that set up.
I dont like my recordings to be bass heavy and thats all the zoom seemed to produce in small venu's and it has spoiled a few off my efforts.
Now my zoom got damaged on new years eve at a gig so am finished with that and am wanting the best set up possibly with my new machine.
I honestly think you dont need a preamp if your going to be recording loud shows all the time. If however your going to be recording all kinds of shows then a preamp would be a good idea. This is however something you can purchase later on. I would suggest a pair of my ca-14 mics and a battery box to start. See how it works for you and if you still feel you need a preamp you can always order one from me later on. The ca-14 is $139 and the battery box is $29. The HR is a great recorder with a good preamp built in. My 9100 preamp would be a good way to go but again it seems to me your recording mainly loud shows so you might be able to get away with out having one.
My gear is hardly the "best gear" out there but for the price its a very good deal. In this hobby you can easily spend $700-$800 on a good pair of DPA4061 mics great for recording shows they are omni in some cases they might not work great for some bigger venues. And you will need a battery box. The sky is the limit in the end there is no "best" system there is what your willing to spend and more importantly then money what you really want to achieve with your gear. You can spend between $250 to $5,000 on a serious rig and even more.. It can be a very expensive hobby but you dont need to break the bank to get good audio.
Chris
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First off thanks for the replys.
I shall be mainly recording loud rock concerts at big & small concert halls in stealth mode.
I want to get the best possible recording and am happy paying for the best mic set up to run with my new recorder.
The set up i have been looking at is CHURCH-AUDIO STC-9000 so do you guys think that is the way too go.
I am not the best when it comes to all the techy stuff and am just a music fan who wants to listen back ta the gigs i attend.
I have been using the zoom h4 with a bat box and mic a pal made for me but being honest i have never liked the recordings using that set up.
I dont like my recordings to be bass heavy and thats all the zoom seemed to produce in small venu's and it has spoiled a few off my efforts.
Now my zoom got damaged on new years eve at a gig so am finished with that and am wanting the best set up possibly with my new machine.
I honestly think you dont need a preamp if your going to be recording loud shows all the time. If however your going to be recording all kinds of shows then a preamp would be a good idea. This is however something you can purchase later on. I would suggest a pair of my ca-14 mics and a battery box to start. See how it works for you and if you still feel you need a preamp you can always order one from me later on. The ca-14 is $139 and the battery box is $29. The HR is a great recorder with a good preamp built in. My 9100 preamp would be a good way to go but again it seems to me your recording mainly loud shows so you might be able to get away with out having one.
My gear is hardly the "best gear" out there but for the price its a very good deal. In this hobby you can easily spend $700-$800 on a good pair of DPA4061 mics great for recording shows they are omni in some cases they might not work great for some bigger venues. And you will need a battery box. The sky is the limit in the end there is no "best" system there is what your willing to spend and more importantly then money what you really want to achieve with your gear. You can spend between $250 to $5,000 on a serious rig and even more.. It can be a very expensive hobby but you dont need to break the bank to get good audio.
Chris
Looks like am going with the CA 14s thanks for all your advice/assistance.
Check your pm Chris.
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The last thing you need for your interests especially with this model deck is an external preamplifier.
Guy, can you please elaborate on this statement. I use an R-09HR with the Church 9100, but was shopping around for a "better" pre with phantom power to run other mics in an "open" format with this deck since I'm not happy running my UA-5 analog out to the Edirol. It seems to me that the R-09HR would make a great tape with line-out from any of the more traditional pre's, like a V2, MMP, MP-2, etc. I know I don't have to run a large pre-amp to get good tapes with my R-09HR, but wouldn't it help if I was using that deck with a more high-end pair of condenser 48v mics? Thanks.
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I think Guy's point was just that he really didn't need one. He's stealthing loud shows.
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Old, very old, to taping but new to digital taping. I'm basically an idiot, so here is my 2 cents. First, my venues are small to medium. Clubs and 5,000 and under outdoor venues. Stealth is the watch word here.
My rig, after consideration, was your 09 and Chri's Preamp and the DPA 4061's. I spent about 36 hours reading every thread on this stupid BB, and another 8 hours on the phone talking with members here, equipment dealers, and Chris Church.
Why?
Chris's Preamp is very small, and stealth is what I need most of the time. He also modified his Preamp with Microdot inputs for the DPA's which saves space and is really sweet. The DPA Part No. for those inputs is DJJ-0031 by the way and they are $20 each. Order from Colorado and ship to you, then re-ship to Chris by US Mail.
You can not fit that DPA preamp in a pocket. Yes a battery box will do for smaller venues, but why not spend a tad more and get a preamp and a battery box, a two-fer?
Chris made me a connector to go from the Preamp to the 09 which needs to have 90 degrees and straight ends.
The DPA's are horribly expensive, about $900 for the pair in a kit form, but some of the better tapes I have heard off The Dime, a bittorrent site, have this same rig. Very stealthy. I'd rather put the bulk of my money up front sorta like an old time stereo system, where you put the good money up front in a cartridge and turntable, right?
So there you have it. I don't claim my rig is the best or even better than most. Given the quality of the DPA's I know it will make good tapes and with the 09 and Chri's preamp will be very stealthy.
My two cents.
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The last thing you need for your interests especially with this model deck is an external preamplifier.
Guy, can you please elaborate on this statement. I use an R-09HR with the Church 9100, but was shopping around for a "better" pre with phantom power to run other mics in an "open" format with this deck since I'm not happy running my UA-5 analog out to the Edirol. It seems to me that the R-09HR would make a great tape with line-out from any of the more traditional pre's, like a V2, MMP, MP-2, etc. I know I don't have to run a large pre-amp to get good tapes with my R-09HR, but wouldn't it help if I was using that deck with a more high-end pair of condenser 48v mics? Thanks.
The 09HR mic input is quiet and plenty low distortion enough for doing stealth mode POP/ROCK type venues.
So just powering your mics (with whatever 9-48 volt module powering that's appropriate) for going directly into the 09HR's MIC INPUT will allow smallest rig size and the results will be quite satisfying.
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Thinking about getting one....
....does this unit allow for volume adjustment on each channel independently of the other?
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Thinking about getting one....
....does this unit allow for volume adjustment on each channel independently of the other?
Unfortunately, no it doesn't.
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Thinking about getting one....
....does this unit allow for volume adjustment on each channel independently of the other?
Unfortunately, no it doesn't.
Which is fortunate if running a matched stereo pair array and not wanting to mess up the imaging with unmatched channel gain.
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Thinking about getting one....
....does this unit allow for volume adjustment on each channel independently of the other?
Unfortunately, no it doesn't.
If you need independent gain my ugly has that feature and its the same price. But you must use some form of 1k tone to calibrate your mics so that you have an even sound from left to right. This is the most important thing when using a preamp that has independent controls so that you can get the most from your recordings. Anyone running a preamp that has independent controls of left and right that are continuous Not detected should be using this simple method.
Mount both mics on axis to a speaker shut off the other speaker of the stereo set put a 1k tone though your speakers place the mics no more then 1m away from the speakers and place both mics as close as possible to each other.
Then record a wav file and look at it in a real audio program and measure the average level between left and right. This will give you your difference to add to the signal in post or in the field you must then calibrate your preamp so it adds this difference always that way your stereo image will be perfect. Nobody does this I wonder why because this can have such a huge impact on the sound of your recordings its not funny. Relying on your R09s vu meter will not give you the information you need to balance out your recordings perfectly. If your running my mics you only have to adjust gain because you know your mics are matched. The method I use is more advanced then this but this is the basics of how I match my capsules. When I match I match for amplitude at 1k frequency response from 20hz to 20k and distortion percentage. So both mics exhibit the same distortion characteristics and frequency response and absolute sensitivity at 1k I use an acoustic coupler to do this so there is no error with placement.