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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: EarlyMorningRain on February 12, 2009, 11:45:51 AM
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so I got one of these as a gift (didn't really need one), and while it does browse the web and all (that is if you like viewing web pages on a small screen), but are there uses for it for things related to what we do here?
I checked the rockbox site and they don't have RB build for anything HP/Ipaq (not reassuring there...)
An amazon link for it is here (http://www.amazon.com/HP-iPAQ-hx2495-Pocket-PC/dp/B000AR7QXW)
TIA!
edit:
I did a search on here for it and found a few mentions of them, however they were all old ys posts so that didn't yield anything substantial
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I think a TS member by the nick name of live2496 uses an ipaq for recording.
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Yes. I use a 2795 which looks just like that one, but it has a 624mHz cpu. It will record 24-bit 96kHz stereo nicely. You have to have a PDAudio card to capture a digital signal. PDAudio can accept toslink or coaxial sources. You must have a preamp with a digital output to take full advantage of it.
Another thing you should be aware of is that you will have to buy software. I develop an application for iPAQ's called Live2496. Also, your media will be limited to SD and you can't use SDHC cards with it. So your media size is limited to 4gb. SDHC is available on some newer models running windows mobile 6.
Recording digitally on pocket pc's was devised before handheld flash recorders became common.
Feel free to P.M. me if you would like some further details.
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thanks for the reply, pm forthcoming !!
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You have to have a PDAudio card to capture a digital signal. PDAudio can accept toslink or coaxial sources. You must have a preamp with a digital output to take full advantage of it.
Another thing you should be aware of is that you will have to buy software. I develop an application for iPAQ's called Live2496.
Live2496 is spot on.
You need to pick up:
PDAudio CF ($199 new, around $100 used, if you can find it). Check this offer: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105454.0.html
live2496 software ($99 new, unless you can take over a license from a retired taper)
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preamp with digital out (like AD20 or UA-5, starting from $100 used)
This will give you a nice 24bit digi-in rig.
But before you chuck the money for the PDaudio + software, consider that the MTII does pretty much the same thing, at roughly the same price:
http://www.audiolines.com/product.php?productid=19772
It's probably more trouble-free as well.
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I should also say that I have not tested an hx2495. I assume that it will work because the hx2795 works with PDAudio so well and it is roughly the same system with just a bit less horsepower. The H2210 and H2215's worked really well too for a 400mHz and I think you could get up to 24-bit 88.2kHz with them. I don't know what your expectations are, but you might get 24-bit 96kHz with it. Personally, I would shoot for 24-bit and either 44.1 or 48kHz.
For pocket pc's we recommend formatting with 64kb clusters for writing at maximum speed. And 150x SD media if you can still find some.
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But before you chuck the money for the PDaudio + software, consider that the MTII does pretty much the same thing, at roughly the same price. It's probably more trouble-free as well.
Great advice!
From what I've read on the net the MT2 is definitely way more trouble free. Lot's can go wrong with PD audio if you don't have exactly the right card for your PDA, etc. PD Audio was a cool thing to fool with before there were reasonable dedicated digital recorders that accomplish the same thing much more reliably.
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Great advice!
Lot's can go wrong with PD audio if you don't have exactly the right card for your PDA, etc.
Other than the PDA's not being SDHC compatible, what other probs can one run into regarding which card you are using?
And from what I've seen/read so far, the "PDaudio" itself is basically a sound card with a mic plug in jack (more or less), right?
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Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut because I have no experience with PD audio. Several years ago when I was interested in it's possibilities I did some internet searches and I did come up with a some people saying they had trouble because their PDA's processor or their card apparently couldn't keep up with the data. Also sometimes they could do OK at 24/48 but had big problems when stepping up to 24/96.
I could be complete wrong about it not being trouble free, but it does seem to me that using a MTII as a bit bucket would be a whole lot simpler, especialy for a beginner (not having to worry about whether the processor/card combo is fast enough for the bit rate & sampling rate chosen).
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There were problems earlier on, but those issues have been addressed in the software and also the host systems have gotten faster.
However, that said, it's not a turnkey system. You still have to learn a bit about setting the power management settings, formatting the media for optimum performance. Like windows used to be, it helps to reboot from time to time. I reboot whenever I start a recording session with one (usually).
Pocket pc's earlier than Windows Mobile 5 can lose the programs from memory if the battery gets too low. There are fast recovery methods for this if you are prepared.
So, yes. All of these things are problems or annoyances if not addressed. Most people are looking for something a little simpler. People who know the idiosyncrisies of recordiing on the pocket pc can manage and are happy with them.
What the pocket pc can do that adds value is in the programmability. Some users want automated systems for unmanned recording and I have added methods for that. University researchers are still interested in it because of that. And there are some that like the recording with a pocket pc concept.
I should clear up something, that the pdaudio card has nothing to do with analog at all. It's digital only. You have to feed it an SPDIF signal.
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Most people are looking for something a little simpler. People who know the idiosyncrisies of recordiing on the pocket pc can manage and are happy with them.
What the pocket pc can do that adds value is in the programmability. Some users want automated systems for unmanned recording and I have added methods for that. University researchers are still interested in it because of that. And there are some that like the recording with a pocket pc concept.
His complete post is a very honest and thorough answer with all the +'s and -'s from someone who has developed PD Audio software.
If +T's were still around I would give several.
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What the pocket pc can do that adds value is in the programmability. Some users want automated systems for unmanned recording and I have added methods for that. University researchers are still interested in it because of that. And there are some that like the recording with a pocket pc concept.
I should clear up something, that the pdaudio card has nothing to do with analog at all. It's digital only. You have to feed it an SPDIF signal.
Thanks a lot, live2496, you're a real asset to this community. +T ;-)
But I have one main concern. It seems that the PDAudio CF card is becoming abandonware at CoreSounds. The specs page is sketchy, hardly any development going on, and it's overpriced compared to other offerings on the market (compare MTII).
I guess the interface is a dying breed when it comes to handheld computers. Few new models feature any CF slot, which renders the PDAudio technology obsolete.
I have a few questions:
1. Wouldn't it be possible to connect a USB soundcard like Fast Track Pro or UA-5 to a modern PDA with USB host capacity, skipping the S/PDIF detour alltogether? Are there driver limitations (Windows Mobile not supporting this)?
2. Or would it be possible to connect a USB sound card using the SolarExpress USB Host CF card?
http://www.smartphonemag.com/cms/blogs/30/add_a_usb_port_to_your_handheld
3. Would the live2496 software work either of these two solutions?
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Thank you for the kind comments.
RE: Core Sound. I would agree that there is focus on getting the newer products like the Tetramic out there. But Core Sound has always been responsive to my requests.
There are fewer new pda's are suitable for PDAudio. The only newer ones that I know of are the Socket Somo 650 and the HP 210 series. And really performance on those has been less than spectacular for their cpu power. They will record at 24 bit 48kHz, but seem to lack to extra whatever (system tuning?) to do well at 24-bit and 88.2/96kHz. The Dell X50/X51v's were great for recording. Also, the hp hx2795 is good. The 2210/2215's were good for their class.
For the devices like the UA-5 you would need USB host capability (as you mentioned), but you would also need a driver for pocket pc that handles the USB data accordingly. So Live2496 won't work with any of them.
The USB host devices that I know of are limited to USB 1.x. This includes the Somo650 and the SolarExpress CF card. Older Toshiba's were also USB 1.x .
Live2496 was developed around PDAudio. It won't currently work with any USB audio capture devices. It's the lack of a pocket pc driver. If one were available I would likely have added support for that as I was looking for ways to expand my market.
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Thanks all for the (other) questions and answers being posted here so far!! Great thread (for the ones interested) and big props goes to live2496 !!
Question though, when you record on these, you record to SD card, right? So how do you get the files off of that to your computer? While the PDA is in the cradle and hooked up via USB cable, so you could then drag and drop (or use whatever interface there is for pc connectivity)? Or of course an alternate method is to remove the SD card and put it in something else I'm assuming.
Being a R-09 owner, means I've got a few SD cards laying around (both regular SD and SDHC). So when recording at 24/96, how fast would one fill up a 2 gig card (or a 4 gig)? FWIW - most shows I hit are anywhere from 70-100 minutes long.
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A bit off topic.... but does anyone have any info on recording with external mics onto a Windows Mobile 6 (or 6.1) Smart Phone? I have a program on my phone called "Record Pad" that can record up to 24/96 using the internal mic on the phone... it provides a "mono" stereo signal. It's good for voice, but not so great for high SPL's.
My phone has a mini USB port. Any chance of using external mics for this somehow?
Thanks!
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The fastest way to get files from the SD cards is to use a card reader in laptop or desktop system. In my card reader I think 4gb will take 5-6 minutes if I remember correctly. It depends upon the reader though.
It is possible to use the USB, but it is way slower. This is done on the host computer using an application called ActiveSync. If the PDA has wireless you can also ftp the file to a computer running an ftp server. It is also possible to copy the files to a network share. Copying wirelessly is plenty fast enough.
24/96 is roughly 3 times the data rate of CD.
24 bits = 16 bits times 1.5
96kHz = ~2x 44.1kHz (roughly 2x)
CD rate is about 10 mb/min, so 24/96 is about 30 mb per recorded minute. 60 minutes would be about 1800mb. So to a 4gb media expect about 2 hours.
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But I have one main concern. It seems that the PDAudio CF card is becoming abandonware at CoreSounds.
PDAudio-CF is not "abandonware" -- we expect to carry it and support it for at least a few more years.
Using an external Mic Pre/ADC like our Mic2496 V2 or a Grace Lunatec V3 gives you a true 24-bit/96 recorder. The M-Audio MicroTrack II, Sony -D50 and other small recorders have, at best, 16-bits of dynamic range, despite being marketed as 24-bit recorders.
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The M-Audio MicroTrack II, Sony -D50 and other small recorders have, at best, 16-bits of dynamic range, despite being marketed as 24-bit recorders.
Not true if you use an external Preamp/ADC (which is also required when using PD Audio). I still think using something like a MT II as a bit bucket is a simpler, more trouble free solution than PD Audio for most people.
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recording with external mics onto a Windows Mobile 6 (or 6.1) Smart Phone?
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My phone has a mini USB port. Any chance of using external mics for this somehow?
That's roughly what I was wondering too.
If I understand live2496, the current showstopper is that there aren't any USB sound devices with Windows Mobile drivers.
If you can track down a USB sound card or "USB mic" that ships with WM6 drivers, or if there is any third party programmer writing these drivers, maybe it could work...
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There might be something out there to record when using VOIP. But it would be geared toward phone calls, mono only, and lacking the dynamic range for serious music recording.
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But I have one main concern. It seems that the PDAudio CF card is becoming abandonware at CoreSounds.
PDAudio-CF is not "abandonware" -- we expect to carry it and support it for at least a few more years.
Using an external Mic Pre/ADC like our Mic2496 V2 or a Grace Lunatec V3 gives you a true 24-bit/96 recorder. The M-Audio MicroTrack II, Sony -D50 and other small recorders have, at best, 16-bits of dynamic range, despite being marketed as 24-bit recorders.
Sorry Len, that was a bit provocative! I appreciate all the effort you put into developing this gear. Cleary, it has been very useful and had a unique niche in the taper community at a time when there were few other options.
But it was just the feeling I got when browsing your site. The "news" page for PDAudio was last updated in May 2007. Go figure... :-*
The comparison page is "under construction" and doesn't mention the two particular recorders on the market that accept 24bit digital input (D50 and MTII). We're not comparing analog inputs here - I'm strictly looking at S/PDIF 24bit.