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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: tonykriegmaui on February 27, 2009, 08:37:56 PM
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I will be going to the Steve Miller concert in Honolulu on Sunday night. I just got the CA 9100 pre amp and a pair of CA cards and an Ederiol R0 9hr. I will be sitting about40 feet from the stage at about20 ft high. Can you recommend settings on the pre and the R09hr
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I believe, but am not positive, that unity gain (the setting where it is neither amplifying nor attenuating) on the R-09HR is about 50. I would leave the HR set to 50 and start with the ST-9100 at 11:00 (its unity gain setting). Set your HR to record in 24 bit and adjust the ST-9100 so that the meters peak somewhere around -12 DB. That should give you plenty of headroom to avoid clipping and with 24 bit you should be able to boost the gain in post without adding audible noise.
Someone who records with the HR/ST-9100 combo should be able to give you a better idea where to initially set the ST-9100. You can also get some idea by checking out the opening act
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Thanks When you say set the HR to 50 do you mean the "input level" (the screen the pops up when you adjust the volume)or 50 on theVU level?
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Thanks When you say set the HR to 50 do you mean the "input level" (the screen the pops up when you adjust the volume)or 50 on theVU level?
Run my preamp at 80% of its total level and the HR at about 55-60 that should get you pretty good levels at about 108 or so DB. Make sure to use the line input.
And a fresh quality battery like a Duracell or energizer... No I dont get any kick backs from these guys * but I should * :)
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I meant 50 on input level and Chris means 55-60 on the input level. I bow to his experience using this combo and of course nobody knows his preamp better than he does. So start with his 55-60 (line in)/80% on the ST-9100 recommendation and see how your levels are looking.
Use 24 bit mode & aim for peaks around -12 dB on the VU meter (though I often peak a good bit lower with the recorders I use and still hear no added noise when I boost levels in post).
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I meant 50 on input level and Chris means 55-60 on the input level. I bow to his experience using this combo and of course nobody knows his preamp better than he does. So start with his 55-60 (line in)/80% on the ST-9100 recommendation and see how your levels are looking.
Use 24 bit mode & aim for peaks around -12 dB on the VU meter (though I often peak a good bit lower with the recorders I use and still hear no added noise when I boost levels in post).
Always use as much of my preamp as possible to get the best SNR.
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Always use as much of my preamp as possible to get the best SNR.
This is a little bit different, but does that mean that I should use +30 on my CA-9000 instead of +10? I usually go +10 on your preamp and then +18 to +22 on the R-09. Should I go +30 and then run my R-09 lower?
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Always use as much of my preamp as possible to get the best SNR.
This is a little bit different, but does that mean that I should use +30 on my CA-9000 instead of +10? I usually go +10 on your preamp and then +18 to +22 on the R-09. Should I go +30 and then run my R-09 lower?
You're right at that awkward point where if you run +30 on your 9000, you might not be able to set the gain low enough on your R-09. For instance, if you are at a show that requires 10 dB from the preamp and 18 from your R-09, that's 28 dB overall. If you set the 9000 for 30 dB, then you need -2 from the R-09. That's going to be hard to do. So, you're probably already doing the best thing for your setup. I'll defer to whatever Chris tells you because he has more experience with the 9000, but in my opinion, you're already doing the right thing.
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I agree with SparkE! about you doing the right thing. Chris will give you the definitive answer, but on the ST-9000, I believe he recommends +10 for loud shows, 0 for extremely loud shows, and +30 only for quiet stuff like acoustic. If you go +30 at a loud show you run the danger of the preamp itself clipping, even if your levels on the R-09 look fine.
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I agree with SparkE! about you doing the right thing. Chris will give you the definitive answer, but on the ST-9000, I believe he recommends +10 for loud shows, 0 for extremely loud shows, and +30 only for quiet stuff like acoustic. If you go +30 at a loud show you run the danger of the preamp itself clipping, even if your levels on the R-09 look fine.
You are correct. +30 On the 9000 is very hot for an r09 and will not be good for really loud shows.
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if there is a opening band, check your levels and maybe fool around with the levels. see whats too hot or too cold, lol ;D
good luck brah :cheers:
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I agree with SparkE! about you doing the right thing. Chris will give you the definitive answer, but on the ST-9000, I believe he recommends +10 for loud shows, 0 for extremely loud shows, and +30 only for quiet stuff like acoustic. If you go +30 at a loud show you run the danger of the preamp itself clipping, even if your levels on the R-09 look fine.
You are correct. +30 On the 9000 is very hot for an r09 and will not be good for really loud shows.
That's the thing, I don't know if a lot of what I see would be called "really loud shows." Most of what I record is bluegrassy bands in small bars with crappy PA's, so I've got the preamp at +10, the R-09 at 18-22, and I still have to add a few dB's in Audacity. I'm happy with the results that I'm getting from that combo, but when Chris said to use as much of his preamp as possible it made me question what I was doing.
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I agree with SparkE! about you doing the right thing. Chris will give you the definitive answer, but on the ST-9000, I believe he recommends +10 for loud shows, 0 for extremely loud shows, and +30 only for quiet stuff like acoustic. If you go +30 at a loud show you run the danger of the preamp itself clipping, even if your levels on the R-09 look fine.
You are correct. +30 On the 9000 is very hot for an r09 and will not be good for really loud shows.
That's the thing, I don't know if a lot of what I see would be called "really loud shows." Most of what I record is bluegrassy bands in small bars with crappy PA's, so I've got the preamp at +10, the R-09 at 18-22, and I still have to add a few dB's in Audacity. I'm happy with the results that I'm getting from that combo, but when Chris said to use as much of his preamp as possible it made me question what I was doing.
If you're talking about shows like The Wilders at The Replay Lounge last summer, then that's probably OK to go with the 30 dB of gain... but just barely. You wouldn't want to set up right in front of a monitor if you did that. With straight acoustic sets, it would be preferable to use 30 dB. (BTW, I'd still love to get a copy of that Wilders show. We had to leave early. And who was that opening act from Minneapolis?)
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I'm usually the only taper at the shows that I go to so I don't like to experiment very much, but I have tried going +30 on the preamp and running close to unity on the R-09 one time (I think that I ended up at 10 or 11). It was a coffee house show that wasn't amplified very much and I think that it turned out okay, but since it was a coffee house there's a ton of grinding, pounding, and other coffee making noises in the background.
And that band was called Pert' Near Sandstone. PM sent.
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Well with my ca 14's rubber banded to a chopstick and the Edirol R-09hr hooked up to the CA 9100 HR at 50 and 9100 at 60-70 my first rock concert was a hugh success!!(Steve Miller - Honolulu) Thanks for all the help.
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I agree with SparkE! about you doing the right thing. Chris will give you the definitive answer, but on the ST-9000, I believe he recommends +10 for loud shows, 0 for extremely loud shows, and +30 only for quiet stuff like acoustic. If you go +30 at a loud show you run the danger of the preamp itself clipping, even if your levels on the R-09 look fine.
You are correct. +30 On the 9000 is very hot for an r09 and will not be good for really loud shows.
That's the thing, I don't know if a lot of what I see would be called "really loud shows." Most of what I record is bluegrassy bands in small bars with crappy PA's, so I've got the preamp at +10, the R-09 at 18-22, and I still have to add a few dB's in Audacity. I'm happy with the results that I'm getting from that combo, but when Chris said to use as much of his preamp as possible it made me question what I was doing.
I agree with Spark'e you could go + 30 for the light stuff and it would be fine.
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Well with my ca 14's rubber banded to a chopstick and the Edirol R-09hr hooked up to the CA 9100 HR at 50 and 9100 at 60-70 my first rock concert was a hugh success!!(Steve Miller - Honolulu) Thanks for all the help.
Congratulations! :clapping: And nice work on the home-made T-bar. I clip my CA-14's to a 6" plastic ruler.
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6" ruler! - preferrably black! - should've thought of that - would've made things much easier. thanks. But, Chris's mikes and preamp - captured and amazing sound.
What I learned (for other newbies) was it really makes a difference where you are on or off axis to the speakers (duh!). If you look at the venue of the Blaisdell arena ( http://www.blaisdellcenter.com/seating/seating_arena.html) I was sitting at Loge 16 off to the right of the stage. The loges are about 30 feet off the floor of the arena. The speakers were hung on either side of the stage (I would guess they were 50 feet high on each side hung from the ceiling and made up of a number of individual speakers sorta like a ribbon of boxes strung together). I thought that it would be better to be closer to the stage to see the performers. But I noticed when Jesse Colin Young opened that the sound seemed to be a bit muffled. So I picked up and went over to the loge 1, dead center and there was quite a bit more high end. Unfortunately, I was kicked out of the seat mid way in the concert for some late comers who had bought tickets. I noticed as I was walking back to my original seat (continued recording while walking) that the sound didn't start to get muffled until after about a 45 degree and more off the stage (with 180 degrees being on loge 1 dead center).