Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Nick's Picks on April 07, 2009, 07:02:42 AM
-
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119885.new.html#new
for anyone who wants to hear what these sound like.
http://www.archive.org/details/nmas2009-04-06.nickspicks
-
I've been listening to this all day.
the mics sound true to form. Not "splashy" , which is what I expected them to sound like. Bass response is impressive.
I might have to start my own team!
-
I haven't used these or actual seen a pair live, but they look very similar to MXL's 603 or 991 series, which is a good thing. All these mics are made in China using the classic Schoeps TL topology, albeit, with lower grade resistor, caps, diodes, etc. They are easily modified and all cheap components can be replaced with higher grade ones.
I basically rebuilt 2 991's and 990's. The 990 is a side address sdc, or a 991 in a differant body. I replaced 12 components in each mic, removed redundant screens and modified the cap, which in your case it looks as though M-audio did not go down the road MXL did with the body, therefore the diaphram is fairly close to the end of the cap. Not so, with the MXL, which I machined down.
Take them apart and see what type of components were used. Modifying your mic might make a good mic a truly great mic.
BTW, I bet the MXL omni caps would fit them and can be had on e-bay for $38 a pair. I would suggest that you machine the lip down as to improve the sound on them, though.
Ray
-
sounds really nice Nick, thanks for sharing!
-
I haven't used these or actual seen a pair live, but they look very similar to MXL's 603 or 991 series, which is a good thing. All these mics are made in China using the classic Schoeps TL topology, albeit, with lower grade resistor, caps, diodes, etc. They are easily modified and all cheap components can be replaced with higher grade ones.
I have a pair of the MXL 603s (which I didn't much care for), is it really worth the mod? I also have a pair of Joe Meek JM27s, which I read were the same mic but they sure don't appear to be the same to me. Do you think upgrading their electronic components would help them?
-
As I stated, the topology is based on classic Schoeps TL (which folks pay very good money for) and the cap are really pretty nice after the physical mod. According to the designer he based them off of the KM84's. If you are good with an iron you should go for it. If not, send them off to Oktavamod and Mike Jolly can do some of the mods I've discussed, albeit, it would come with a price of around $400 a pair. Do it yourself and the cost is around $20.00.
Again, many of these mics are limited by the components used or the implementation not the design.
-
Physical mod? As opposed to the electrical mod or are we talking about the same thing? I have a certificate in electronics which means I know just enough to be dangerous but can swap components as long as they aren't surface mount. I think I'll go for it after a little planning and research. They aren't doing me much good otherwise.
-
Electrical mod is the components the physical mod is to the cap body. Take it a part and you'll see that this is as easy as it gets to mod, however, you have to be good with an iron.
As I mentioned, visit Oktava Mod for what Mike does and you decide if you can do it or if you think it is worth the price. In my case it cost me $20.00, so it was well worth the price.
ray
-
I have a pair of the MXL 603s (which I didn't much care for), is it really worth the mod? I also have a pair of Joe Meek JM27s, which I read were the same mic but they sure don't appear to be the same to me. Do you think upgrading their electronic components would help them?
[/quote]
Do you want to sell your 603's?
-
I've read a bunch on this "mod" on gearslutz.
supposed to be pretty sweet. I'll see if I can find a link
-
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/377500-low-cost-sdc-heads-up.html
-
That's what I'm talking about. I basically upped Mike J. by replacing more components. Like I said it cost me around $20.00 for 2 990 and 2 991, which are basically the same as the 603. So, for 4 nice mics it cost me $100.00, including the mics, add another $40 for 2 omni caps for a total of $140.00. I'll be using these for a multi-track of Frank Vignola and Bucky Pizzarelli next week. The 990's in Omni for aud, and the 991's over the violin and on the mando. I'll also be using 2 Oktava 319, highly modified, on the guitars, and a stereo pair of Schoeps CCM 4's.
BTW, for lovers of jazz check out Felipe Salles, "Timeline" release. I was the recording engineer for this project. I think you'll really like the recording.
-
Nice recording Nick. i am pretty impressed w/the bass response on these.
-
Raymonda do you have any documentation (or a link) on what components you replaced in your mics? I'm starting to get sucked in after reading the GearSlutz thread...
-
I could put one together and post it later.
Ray
-
I've modified (Scott Dorsey mod) a few pairs of Octava MC012's. I like the idea of turning cheap mics into expensive sounding mics.
-
I have a pair of the MXL 603s (which I didn't much care for), is it really worth the mod? I also have a pair of Joe Meek JM27s, which I read were the same mic but they sure don't appear to be the same to me. Do you think upgrading their electronic components would help them?
Do you want to sell your 603's?
[/quote]
No, you've sold me on them out from under you! I'm going to try the mod. I did a little searching and found the stuff at GearSlutz so I'll read up and see what I can do. Of course any help would be deeply appreciated, heck I already appreciate what you've said so far. Thanks!
Now if I can do something with those Joe Meek mics as well ... I was thinking about giving them to my favorite blues club. I wonder if they would benefit from a similar mod.
-
Nice recording Nick. i am pretty impressed w/the bass response on these.
Me too...I'm streaming it now and it's making my bass shy Heresy IIs jump around a little 8)
-
they are very impressive, IMO. I'll be using them a lot in the coming months.
I dont want to compare them to anything yet, but I can say that in their price class nothing touches them, or even comes close.
In the least, these should make for great drum mics for live work.
-
Nick and I ran clamped together on the same mount within inches of each other at NMAS. I ran 483's and I think in an A/B comp 99% of listeners would prefer his. Yes, I expect the hypers to have less bass than the others and they do... but that bass was so thumpy the balcony was vibrating... and it was LOUD, so my tape isn't really lacking in bass. Aside from base response... my tape sounds almost "clinical" and his sounds more "comfortable"... those are terrible terms... maybe his sounds "warm", but not exactly.
I wish I had run my Earthworks that night... they are pretty neutral.
-
I haven't listened to any other sources yet, but want to.
the mics are smooth sounding. musical.
-
I haven't uploaded mine yet... it should be up on the LMA in a day or two.
-
Hey Nick,
I have read a lot about these Pulsar's and the other M-Audio mics. The consensus seems to be that they sound like more expensive mics. Did you record the NMAS with the stock or mod. Pulsars? They sound really good. I'm considering getting a pair. What pre/power supply would you suggest?
Thanks
-
Yep, the bass response is strong! $300/pair aint bad! I've read a bunch of reviews about these mics.
If a simple SDC card pair is all you need, then these might be a go over the busmans.
Although, at $99 a pair, the Karma K10 still kicks serious ass:
http://www.archive.org/details/dso2007-07-05.KarmaK10
-
mine are just stock plain ol pulsar IIs.
I have no preamp preference yet. I've only run them on my R44, both stock and ACM channels. they sound good on both.
-
Thanks for the info. Nick.
My name is John, BTW. I am in Durham, NC
New to this site, but have been taping since the 80's. Probably talk to ya soon.
Thanks again!
-
Hey Nick,
I have read a lot about these Pulsar's and the other M-Audio mics. The consensus seems to be that they sound like more expensive mics. Did you record the NMAS with the stock or mod. Pulsars? They sound really good. I'm considering getting a pair. What pre/power supply would you suggest?
Thanks
stock or mod Pulsars ... did I miss something? ???
-
inre:
" I ran 483's and I think in an A/B comp 99% of listeners would prefer his. "
oh, come on now. i would be seriously skeptical that any $300 pair of mics is going to be comparable to akg C480s... my C481s were almost indistinguishable from my pair of DPA 4011s in overdub situations in the studio, and that puts them right up there with the best mics in the world, IMO. to insinuate that M-Audio is going to come up with a chinese made mic for $300/pr that is in that kind of league is rather stretching it a bit far.
-
inre:
" I ran 483's and I think in an A/B comp 99% of listeners would prefer his. "
oh, come on now.
I'm not sure the statement you quote actually says anything about the quality of the mics. Think about what the "average" listener prefers: "enhanced" (i.e. bloated) bass & "hyped" treble, heavy compression / near total lack of dynamics, low-to-mid bitrate MP3s, cruddy earbud headphones, etc. Also, cards v. hypers + potential configuration differences may have had a big impact on the recordings. No matter what percentage of people prefer the Pulsars, I don't think it would mean much with respect to their quality relative to AKG 48x. I've heard plenty of recordings where less expensive / lower quality mic X produced a better recording than mic Y. Doesn't mean it's a better mic, really. Lots more recording, listening, testing, etc. to do before anyone can make a reasonable claim about the Pulsar's quality relative to other, well established, well known mics, IMO.
-
good comment, brian. it is just too easy for new folks to be misled by remarks which do not have sufficient context.
-
And I was about to trade my 480's in...
-
OK Guys-Calm down! All i'm saying here is what I've read from industry insiders. I have 0 experience w/m-audio products. Just the same, I'm Very interested in listening to not only the pulsars, but especially the Sputnik.
The point being that the german mics have a long history of extremely hi qual. product. Nobody in their right mind would dispute that. BUT.. It seems as though there are products entering the market that emulate that great german engineering. As a matter of fact, there is a Telefunken mic made in China on the market, and is possibly inferior to it's US competitor, which is identical, but uses better components.
Remember, we are in times of a "global economy". Europe is no exception to this reality.
-
OK Guys-Calm down! All i'm saying here is what I've read from industry insiders. I have 0 experience w/m-audio products. Just the same, I'm Very interested in listening to not only the pulsars, but especially the Sputnik.
The point being that the german mics have a long history of extremely hi qual. product. Nobody in their right mind would dispute that. BUT.. It seems as though there are products entering the market that emulate that great german engineering. As a matter of fact, there is a Telefunken mic made in China on the market, and is possibly inferior to it's US competitor, which is identical, but uses better components.
Remember, we are in times of a "global economy". Europe is no exception to this reality.
Nothing wrong with looking for inexpensive "sleeper" mics.
However, I would trust other brands more than Maudio. I've got some of their gear (usb interfaces) and the quality is highly variable. There are some winners (maudio transit, maudio duo), but there are some really bad ones too.
Richard
-
OK Guys-Calm down! All i'm saying here is what I've read from industry insiders. I have 0 experience w/m-audio products. Just the same, I'm Very interested in listening to not only the pulsars, but especially the Sputnik.
The point being that the german mics have a long history of extremely hi qual. product. Nobody in their right mind would dispute that. BUT.. It seems as though there are products entering the market that emulate that great german engineering. As a matter of fact, there is a Telefunken mic made in China on the market, and is possibly inferior to it's US competitor, which is identical, but uses better components.
Remember, we are in times of a "global economy". Europe is no exception to this reality.
Nothing wrong with looking for inexpensive "sleeper" mics.
However, I would trust other brands more than Maudio. I've got some of their gear (usb interfaces) and the quality is highly variable. There are some winners (maudio transit, maudio duo), but there are some really bad ones too.
Richard
And along that note, seems like there's been some real lemons out there among the microtracks, so even within a particular product line, potential for variability.
These are stereo matched sets?
I gave the nmas tape a listen, thojght it did sound good. Eager to hear more from these mics.
-
you want some more ?
here is my last band practice.
recorded ORTF in the room (small) where we practice.
www.nickspicks.com/music/DOUBT
there are flac's and MP3s. tracks are labeled. give it a listen.
and from the week before, same room...mics setup XY.
www.hydra-audio.com/mp3/RO
I'm going to tape BK3 with them next week, I'll post it.
I'm not implying that these mics approach German build quality..., i'm just saying they sound *surprisingly good*...very smooth , nothing "bloated" or tinny.
the matched stereo kit for $300odd is a screaming deal.
-
That's what I'm thinking. Not the absolute best mics out there, but certainly a high quality/price ratio.
I hope nobody took the "calm down" remark the wrong way. I didn't mean it the way it may have sounded. :-)
-
it was helpful, I needed to relax.
:)
-
listen to these clips-interesting! U47 to Sputnik comparison.
http://emusician.com/web_clips/webclips_1207/
-
so, how do these pulsars compare to avantone CK-1's? which one is smoother in the top end? how do these little guys compare to some of the more expensive models, like beyer MC930s or km184s or C461s? i am currently doing some studio testing of 184s, mc930s, AT4051s, and want to include a pair of pulsars or ck-1s. any other entry level SDCs i should also consider? thanks.
-
any other entry level SDCs i should also consider?
Busman BSC1 and Avantone CK-1
-
Studio Projects C-4's.
-
Oktava.....
-
Rote NT55, Karma K10, Peluso,
-
you can forget the C4s and the Oktavas. the Pulsars burry them.
the other mics you mentioned, we must remember those mics cost more than $1000 beyond the M-Audio Pulsars.
IMO, based on numbers and estimated value vs. cost..., the Pulsars should cost around $600 per pair. but dont.
:)
for the money, you can't go wrong..., and wont be disappointed.
FullCompass is having a moving sale. these were in their latest flier..., might be worth a call
-
Normally I agree with Nick on his microphone preferences, but I disagree on a few.
you can forget the C4s and the Oktavas. the Pulsars burry them.
You made similar claims about the Peluso's on your website review. M-Audio didn't demo you a set of these Pulsars did they? ;)
Anyway, I like the C4's, Oktava's, Busmans, and Avantones WAY more than the Peluso's for diffuse/far field recording. I can't really say the same for the Pulsars as I havn't owned a pair, but if history of your reviews is any indication, I won't like them.... :)
-
and the Pelusos dont kill those other mics ? They are an excellent kit for the money.
the Pulsars would give the Peluso card cap a serious run, if not best it (IMO...).
no, no free pair of M-Audios. I paid for these.
mics and personal prefference. I still think the pelusos are better than the c4s, def better than the SlopyOktava, but dont know how they fair against the Avantone / Busman mics as i've never used them.
-
Yep, I agree with what you are saying. Esspecially that mics choices are a personal preference.
The Puluso's smoke all of those mics on acoustic guitar and many other studio recording situations. I loved them with the exception of taking them in the field. I pulled recordings that had a rediculous sounding low end. the peluso's capture that low end tone of the schopes, just not very well IMO...
The SP C4's , esspecially the mkII are underated IMO. The hyper caps, which don't get much attention here are fantastic. The omni capsules are nice, but throw a pair of Rode NT5 omnis (they are identical threads/size) on the SP C4 mkII and you will be loving life...
gotta run, i'd love to talk more about these budget mics.....
-
http://nickspicks.com/
blog review.
:)
-
any other entry level SDCs i should also consider?
AKG Perception 170 is another solid performer - I've liked the results I've had with them, and there are some good pulls on the LMA as well.
-
any other entry level SDCs i should also consider?
AKG Perception 170 is another solid performer - I've liked the results I've had with them, and there are some good pulls on the LMA as well.
That looks like a good mic. I saw these for under $150 each. Probably a safe bet compared to other Chinese mics, as AKG will have decent quality control.
Richard
-
I'm, on Team AKG had was not aware of the AKG Perception 170's. Thanks for the heads up!
They look good, but silver bodies ???
-
does AKG farm out projects ?
a cheap mic from them could easily still be Asian in origin.
-
does AKG farm out projects ?
a cheap mic from them could easily still be Asian in origin.
I'm pretty sure they do. The perception 170 says "designed" in austria. The implication being that it is made somewhere else...
Richard
-
thats fancy talk for "one of our AKG engineers drew the layout"
:)
-
does AKG farm out projects ?
a cheap mic from them could easily still be Asian in origin.
Yes, they are Chinese-made, as are all of the Perception-series mics. On mine, the bodies are a somewhat silvery blue. They're not sold as a matched set, but the two I have sound well-matched; they're likely from the same production run.
-
http://www.archive.org/details/brew2009-05-29.baker
DIN
M-Audio Pulsar II's > Busman UA-5 > Iriver 120
-
http://www.archive.org/details/brew2009-05-29.baker
DIN
M-Audio Pulsar II's > Busman UA-5 > Iriver 120
sounds real nice man...good job. digging these mics more & more & more...
btw, here's a WSP show from last year with the Pulsars that i've been really digging on a lot. XY from the section and it sounds great imo. i'm still seeding it so feel free to jump on:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=515042