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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: salmonite on May 10, 2009, 01:30:23 PM
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Well,
I have a nice summer outdoor taping schedule, and would like to try some 3 mic action. I am running AKG 414's right now, and depending on the situation, would probably run cards or hypers w/a center omni. Can anyone reccomend a nice open sounding omni that would go good w/the 414's? I would like to either go with an AKG or a true omni i.e. Earthworks or Avenson (Why'd I sell those dang things :banging head:), However I don't have the Earthworks type of cash @ this juncture. All opinions welcome & thanks in advance.
-Tyler
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Here is a indoor recording using a 462.
http://www.archive.org/details/brew2008-11-12.414-ck62.flac
The Brew Live at Paradise Rock Club on 2008-11-12 - The Brew
Disc 1 - Set 1 01 Machine 02 I do Believe 03 Faces 04 Seen it All 05 Looking Down 06 Who's the Boss Thanks to Joe & The rest of the Brew crew for the taper guest spot Opened for Tea Leaf Green
Source: 2-AKG c414b(DINa,Hyper,ROC,Balcony) + 1-AKG c460b/a61/ck62(AB,Omni,ROC,Balcony) > BM T-Mod R-4 (Mono,24/48)
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I would pick up the 451 and ck2 in the yard
or
James' 460 body for a hundee and find a cap for it (ie ask Ted)
or
You can borrow my ADK TL whenever you want, I only use it for M/S once a month maybe.
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I would pick up the 451 and ck2 in the yard
or
<snip>
You can borrow my ADK TL whenever you want, I only use it for M/S once a month maybe.
Either of these would be a good option, IMO...with the small diaphragm 451/ck2 being generally better IMO for PA taping and high end response than the LD mics. My extra 460 body is now sold pp to momule, so it's unfortunately out of the running here. Of the AKG SD omni mics, I prefer the 451/2 bodies and the vintage capsules over the ck62 and/or the 460 bodies.
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Also, what you would pay for a Naiant (http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html) is less than what some spend for beer at a show. Just an another very economical option that I use in my mix sometimes...
--Michael
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hiya tyler - shameless plug: i have a LNIB pair of AT4022 omnis for $400 in the yardsale.
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Also, what you would pay for a Naiant (http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html) is less than what some spend for beer at a show. Just an another very economical option that I use in my mix sometimes...
I was looking at the Naiant line. Any reccomendations on which mic to use in this situation?
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Also, what you would pay for a Naiant (http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html) is less than what some spend for beer at a show. Just an another very economical option that I use in my mix sometimes...
I was looking at the Naiant line. Any reccomendations on which mic to use in this situation?
I have the XT, but there are a couple of new models out since I bought mine. I sent an email and asked which would be best, but the answer may have changed due to the newer stuff. PM 'mshilarious' or email from the site.
When I mix in the omni, it's usually just a little. Sometimes it adds goodness, other times not (soo many variables). But, buying one and running it doesn't cost you much...and, experimenting is fun.
--Michael
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i've been running sennheiser and akg 3 mic mixes for a long time. james can testify. usually guns on the outside, card or hyper up the middle. sometimes long guns CK9 or ME88 with short gun ME80 or CK8 up the middle. also i tend to use one brand on the outside and a different brand up the middle.
neil
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^ You bet Neil. It was hearing your 3mic stuff that inspired me to try it.
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So when you run the 3 mics, the "3rd" mic is panned equally to L and R channels, i assume? But set a little lower in the mix? Is this right?
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Well,
I have a nice summer outdoor taping schedule, and would like to try some 3 mic action. I am running AKG 414's right now, and depending on the situation, would probably run cards or hypers w/a center omni.
-Tyler
I've run the NAKs like this a few times......bring a niiice set of closed-ear headphones, and you'll hear just when the center omni level seems right ---- like about 15-30% of the outside cards' levels.......
http://www.archive.org/details/nrps2007-09-22.nak303.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/nrps2007-09-22.nak303.flac16)
http://www.archive.org/details/donna2008-02-08.naks303.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/donna2008-02-08.naks303.flac16)
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=525275 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=525275)
Have fun... :D
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Can I timidly raise my hand in the back of the room here and ask why on Earth anyone would want to place an omni coincident with a pair of X/Y cardioids? Any cardioid has 50% pressure response (= omni). Thus a pair of coincident cardioids--regardless of the angle between their axes--gives you a stereo pickup in which a MINIMUM of 50% of the output of the two microphones is the same signal. And that minimum case occurs if you place the cardioids back-to-back; when you set a more reasonable angle between the cardioids, the cardioid patterns overlap so that there's even less difference between the right and left signals. The more this cross-blending occurs, the closer all apparent sound sources move toward the center in playback.
If, despite being aware of all this, you're still going to add an omni to an X/Y cardioid pair, I have two suggestions:
(1) Apply a low-pass filter (say, at 100 Hz or lower) to the omni's signal before you split it out to the left and right, so that you're only extending the low frequency range of the X/Y pair--not utterly trashing the (usually already marginal) midrange stereo separation.
(2) If deep low-frequency pickup is your main motivation, be sure to use a pressure transducer--which some of the microphones mentioned previously in this thread are not. No dual-diaphragm, switchable-pattern capsule is a pressure transducer in its omnidirectional setting; that type of microphone won't have the flat, extended low-frequency response that you're looking for.
--best regards
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DSatz- I certainly can't speak for Tyler but I can say I've never seen him run coincident patterns...only near coincident. That was suggested by someone else.
While it might not make much sense in theory.... in practice adding a center omni with with near coincident cardioids or a center hyper with near coincident sub cards can add a whole new dimension when approached with a light touch in post production.
You are (of course) entirely correct about using a proper pressure transducer for the best low end response. My offer of the dual diaphram ADK was my third of three suggestion and offered since...well....it's free.
Tyler- I'm moving to STL on the 13th or so...give me a shout out if you are coming through town and want to borrow something for 'Roo or whatever (AKGs,ADK,whatever)
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Ah, then, in my best Emily Litella voice, I will say ... "never mind." But I'll leave my incredulous rant up anyway, just in case it might irritate someone some day. I still can't believe that people record music with X/Y cardioids at 90 degrees, and will no doubt go to my grave still mumbling about that.
--best regards
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Well,
I have a nice summer outdoor taping schedule, and would like to try some 3 mic action. I am running AKG 414's right now, and depending on the situation, would probably run cards or hypers w/a center omni.
-Tyler
I've run the NAKs like this a few times......bring a niiice set of closed-ear headphones, and you'll hear just when the center omni CARD level seems right ---- like about 15-30% of the outside cards' levels.......
http://www.archive.org/details/nrps2007-09-22.nak303.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/nrps2007-09-22.nak303.flac16)
http://www.archive.org/details/donna2008-02-08.naks303.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/donna2008-02-08.naks303.flac16)
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=525275 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=525275)
Have fun... :D
CORRECTION ---- The recordings above were done omni-card-omni, not as suggested in the original posting. Sorry for any confusion. Proud member of Team Old Farts. :-\