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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: mblindsey on May 22, 2009, 06:40:56 PM
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What about recording live music with the double ribbon Beyerdynamic M130/M160 in M/S? Think it might be too "warm"...not enough "detail" for the taper's section of a mid-to-large venue?
...just window shopping...kicking tires...
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/299046.html
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/299042.html
All opinions welcome...
--Michael
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granted, it's not "tried & true", but someone must have an opinion....
...itchy trigger finger...
--Michael
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Would love to hear this, but have no experience, not even with dynamic mics.
Note that you'll need a very good preamp as well.
Richard
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I have heard some classical music recordings with this exact combination - truly lovely. Not tried myself though. These, as most ribbons, will need a bit more amplification from your mic preamp than other types of mics.
// Gunnar
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Would love to hear this, but have no experience, not even with dynamic mics.
Note that you'll need a very good preamp as well.
Richard
My V3 enough, you think?
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By all accounts these are excellent-sounding microphones and that particular combination for M/S is well regarded by those who've used it. Pretty good for a microphone design that is, I dunno, maybe 40 years old by now. But the mikes have only 1 mV/Pa sensitivity, so you'll need ~20 dB greater gain than you'd need with typical studio condenser microphones.
A few years ago I bought a pair of M 160s and tried to use them, but one of them picked up radio frequency interference from the electrical wiring that I couldn't get rid of, and of course it was made 20 dB worse by the 20 dB extra amplification that these mikes require. So I had to switch back to my usual condensers, and never got any good takes with the ribbons. Since I was never able to cure that problem, I eventually gave up and with regret, sold the mikes.
This is getting to be more and more of a problem with microphones that are more than a few years old--they were never designed for today's RF environment with all the cell phones and pagers that people are carrying, WiFi networks, etc.--the radiation in the GHz range is far higher in level and far more widespread than it ever was before. The handwriting is surely on the wall for unbalanced microphone hookups, and the manufacturers of preamps, mixers and recorders are having to pay attention to shielding, grounding, RF bypassing and "pin 1" problems more than ever before--though most low-cost recording equipment is still built in precisely the way that makes these problems worse, because it saves a few bucks (basically if you can remove the cover of a preamp without disconnecting any wires, and the mike input connectors are soldered directly onto the main circuit board as they are in 99% of all low-cost Asian-made recording equipment, then that preamp is inviting RFI to "come in and party" even if it has balanced inputs. That's a bit of an oversimplification but it's close enough for rock and roll).
This problem was brought home to me when I was listening to the recordings of an Audio Engineering Society convention from two years ago, and I heard Blackberry signaling noise on the recordings. I also hear that sound rather often in news feeds of Congressional hearings on TV. Once it gets into your recording, it can't be filtered back out.
--best regards
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A few years ago I bought a pair of M 160s and tried to use them, but one of them picked up radio frequency interference from the electrical wiring that I couldn't get rid of, and of course it was made 20 dB worse by the 20 dB extra amplification that these mikes require. So I had to switch back to my usual condensers, and never got any good takes with the ribbons. Since I was never able to cure that problem, I eventually gave up and with regret, sold the mikes.
Thanks for the input, DSatz. As tempted as I was yesterday (Full Compass has great price if you call), I don't think I'll take a chance on these.
...I need a new mower anyway...
--Michael
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I've never used these but I've always wanted to. That super low sensitivity always scares me off.
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I think there was a thread about this, maybe not these mics but ribbons, over on GS. The upshot was that yes, they make fine recordings and a 45 degree rotation gives you Blumliein. I, too, would try it if it were not for the low output/sensitivity of ribbons. Their sound is wonderful. I do not think the pre's in the SD would be neough to make them happy, however. :(
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please listen to this and tell me what you think. it's 30 minutes from mt jam last year. recorded with a pair of beyer m160's. these same mics are also pictured at a dead show w a 421 blend in the rig pictures section in a black and white shot by david gans from 1984 (even better is a 3rd 160 blend). i have a pair of neuman 84s too, but in some applications the beyers are actually better.
Link to file:
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/696775374/2ec822443ad8b2a751c08be2ecdfe319
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killer recording Chris. where were you, up front? on my computer this recording sounds like it was made indoors... in a good way.
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Did you compress this or is this a lot of clipping in the track?
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did you listen to it or are you just looking at the file? head phones and some feedback please! it's two mics plugged into a marantz pmd 660 that died soon after... and yes t-bone in front of the board. i don't think it has a limiter, but the band may have been using one. it does have a weird feel to it, but good to check out, no? i'll find something with some vocals, maybe i'll post it tomorrow, i'll have to transfer from cassette..
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I first listened to it and noticed it had a "compressed" sound to I converted the MP3 to a WAV and then took a look at it in Samplitude. Now will you answer the question?? 8)
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i didn't compress it, just uploaded the card right out of the marantz, sorry for being obnoxious
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It would seem the musicians were doing something to compress the sound, then. "It goes to 11 . . . " ;o)
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It would seem the musicians were doing something to compress the sound, then. "It goes to 11 . . . " ;o)
you mean the live engineer at the console. The musicians play, the soundman mixes. ;) And yes, live music is often very compressed, to a point where there is not much dynamic fluctuation.
looking forward to downloading the sample. FWIW, my altime favorite live grateful dead recording was with some beyer ribbons. Ultra smooth, detailed and NATURAL sounding.
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A few years ago I bought a pair of M 160s and tried to use them, but one of them picked up radio frequency interference from the electrical wiring that I couldn't get rid of, and of course it was made 20 dB worse by the 20 dB extra amplification that these mikes require. So I had to switch back to my usual condensers, and never got any good takes with the ribbons. Since I was never able to cure that problem, I eventually gave up and with regret, sold the mikes.
This is getting to be more and more of a problem with microphones that are more than a few years old--they were never designed for today's RF environment with all the cell phones and pagers that people are carrying, WiFi networks, etc.--the radiation in the GHz range is far higher in level and far more widespread than it ever was before. The handwriting is surely on the wall for unbalanced microphone hookups, and the manufacturers of preamps, mixers and recorders are having to pay attention to shielding, grounding, RF bypassing and "pin 1" problems more than ever before--though most low-cost recording equipment is still built in precisely the way that makes these problems worse, because it saves a few bucks (basically if you can remove the cover of a preamp without disconnecting any wires, and the mike input connectors are soldered directly onto the main circuit board as they are in 99% of all low-cost Asian-made recording equipment, then that preamp is inviting RFI to "come in and party" even if it has balanced inputs. That's a bit of an oversimplification but it's close enough for rock and roll).
This problem was brought home to me when I was listening to the recordings of an Audio Engineering Society convention from two years ago, and I heard Blackberry signaling noise on the recordings. I also hear that sound rather often in news feeds of Congressional hearings on TV. Once it gets into your recording, it can't be filtered back out.
--best regards
Would the Neutrik connectors mentioned in this other thread fix the RF issue?:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,123722.msg1646706.html#msg1646706
Copied link to PDF mentioned in that thread:
http://www.greendotaudio.com/HTMLobj-1160/FXX-EMC.pdf
--Michael