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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: su6oxone on June 17, 2009, 01:00:38 PM
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Here are some SBD and matrix tapes I made at some venues recently of Cracker. The soundboards sound pretty good on their own so I upped them separately to LMA.
This is Cracker at Rams Head Onstage, a <500 capacity seated venue, fairly small I guess:
Soundboard only:
http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-02.sbd.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-02.sbd.flac16)
50/50 matrix:
http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-02.mtx.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-02.mtx.flac16)
And here are the ones from a larger venue (State Theatre, with maybe 1,500 or so capacity, high ceiling):
Soundboard only:
http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-03.sbd.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-03.sbd.flac16)
65/35 (SBD/AUD) matrix:
http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-03.mtx.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/cracker2009-06-03.mtx.flac16)
The AUD sounded pretty boomy/muddy so I mixed in more of the SBD in the matrix.
In the end, I think the matrix tapes sound much better than the soundboard only tapes.
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I like your 50/50 mix although the sb mix is nice ya gotta have that crowd in there to get the feeling! 65/35 isnt too bad but I like the 50/50 on these guys better!
Neil
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At a local club I've been recording a stereo SBD feed and a stereo audience pair of mics (four channels) for a while now.
At first I was caught up in the percentage thing too.
But now, after some experience under my belt, I listen to the two stereo sources separately in CuBase. I decide which source I like best.
I use that as the main source. Then I mixing the other source in until I can hear a difference. If it sounds better, I add more of the second source until it starts sounding worse. Then take note of the ratio of the two extremes.
Doing that gives you a good range to work from as far as how much of the second source you can add.
You may have to do things like flip the phase of one recording. Sometimes I even swap the left and right channels on one recording if the stereo image isn't stable.
But, more times than not, I find that the audience recording is the best source and I just add in enough SBD to tighten it up.
Ideally you would continue to experiment until the mixed sound gels for you.
I'm generally too impatient to do much more than that on a typical bar band recording. I make a decision on how much to mix in and listen to each source by itself again, to make sure the mix doesn't sound worse than either source by it self.
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@ Neilyboy: thanks, I like the 50/50 the most as well, I think especially b/c the soundboard mix is actually a stereo mix, which isn't very common.
@ Chuck: I pretty much do the same as you (start with the one that I think sounds better and then gradually mix in the other source until it sounds as good as it gets), the percentages is just an estimation at the end so that I remember roughly how much of each I used for future reference.
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Cracker is playing NYC next week. Is David approachable pre-show about a board feed. I can do a matrix with the R-44.
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Cracker is playing NYC next week. Is David approachable pre-show about a board feed. I can do a matrix with the R-44.
Shouldn't be a problem getting a SBD patch. I don't know about David himself, but at one venue the staff went and asked and got the okay, the other one the house sound guy was unhelpful but their archivist who posts here (Morst) was able to send a text to their tour manager who gave the okay to the sound guy. In any case, being New York's Live Music Archivist, you may find that your reputation precedes you and that they already have your patch cable ready awaiting your arrival. ;)
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If you can talk to Johnny, he'll OK a board feed, too.
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I actually like both board feeds myself. The 65/35 mix sounds pretty good. I'm not really a Schoeps fan though. With another brand of mics I might like it more myself but that's my opinion.
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SBDs are often clean and clear, but a bit dry and lifeless to my ear. I dig hearing some room in there.
The 50/50 mix sounds to me like there is a slight audible delay between the SDB and the AUD that could stand closer adjustment. It's most audible listening to the attack of the snare and the guitar.
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Thanks for the opinions guys. Guess I'll have to take a closer listen to the 50/50 matrix to see if I can fine tune it a little better, thanks for the heads up. 8)
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SBDs are often clean and clear, but a bit dry and lifeless to my ear. I dig hearing some room in there.
The 50/50 mix sounds to me like there is a slight audible delay between the SDB and the AUD that could stand closer adjustment. It's most audible listening to the attack of the snare and the guitar.
I almost always do 50/50 no matter what and try to get it right off the bat. I set my levels from both sources as close as possible and then adjust the master volume w/ Vegas until the peaks are perfect depending on the recording.
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60/40matrix for me. I like the SBD to be dominant, where the AUD just back-fills with bass and the usual crowd noise. Since I have two Tascam DR-1's and the drift is negligible IMO, I record two separate distinct sources and do the mix in post. Separate sources, as opposed to mix on the fly, allows me a little more flexibility too, which I like. Just my 2 cents.