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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Macpono on August 05, 2009, 02:32:56 AM
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hey guys,
i am totally pi**** :(
went to see u2 in gelsenkirchen 2 nites ago and probably had the sweetest spot in the entire arena for taping with a crystal clear sound! sat first row on the left hand side of the stage, right in front of the pa with nobody around me. never had a better position than this one but for some heck of a reason my tape fu**** up and i do not understand why it happend??
my rig looked like this: at853-sonosax-r09hr
recorded in: 88/24
limiter: off
low cut: off
mic gain: low
LF Cut (sonosax): off
transfered the file in audacity and it looks like this:
(http://www.newmini-technik.de/images/u2.png)
i have tested my rig today with exactly the same configuration as shown above and i see perfect levels on the edirol!
during the show i thought that there must have been a limiter switched on by incident as the levels were crappy but this was not the case when i checked the configuration (sonosax and edirol) after the show?!
i will upload a short soundfile so you can get an idea of the tape :(
--> http://www.newmini-technik.de/images/u2.mp3 (http://www.newmini-technik.de/images/u2.mp3)
any thoughts would be great!!!
thank you so much
alex
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Not really up with the gear used but my first thought is batteries.
I had a recording where my battery crapped out halfway through that resembled that in audacity. I would be willing to bet on it, but you may want to wait on other opinions.
Only alternative is that your levels were WAY low. I assume you have some reasonable experience given the way you "talk" so I would guess this is not the case.
Dave.
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hey guys,
i am totally pi**** :(
went to see u2 in gelsenkirchen 2 nites ago and probably had the sweetest spot in the entire arena for taping with a crystal clear sound! sat first row on the left hand side of the stage, right in front of the pa with nobody around me. never had a better position than this one but for some heck of a reason my tape fu**** up and i do not understand why it happend??
my rig looked like this: at853-sonosax-r09hr
recorded in: 88/24
limiter: off
low cut: off
mic gain: low
LF Cut (sonosax): off
transfered the file in audacity and it looks like this:
(http://www.newmini-technik.de/images/u2.png)
i have tested my rig today with exactly the same configuration as shown above and i see perfect levels on the edirol!
during the show i thought that there must have been a limiter switched on by incident as the levels were crappy but this was not the case when i checked the configuration (sonosax and edirol) after the show?!
i will upload a short soundfile so you can get an idea of the tape :(
--> http://www.newmini-technik.de/images/u2.mp3 (http://www.newmini-technik.de/images/u2.mp3)
any thoughts would be great!!!
thank you so much
alex
Could be the limiter - I always cover that with black electrical tape.
Seems a bit obvious, but I'd at least also try raising your levels in post - they are WAY low but maybe it sounds a bit better if you raise them? It was hard to tell (at least on my speakers at work) how messed up the recording is because of how low the levels are.
I'm also a touch unclear why you're running a Sonosax with an R-09HR and AT853s. I'm not aware of anything specifically *wrong* with this config but it is at least not a common one, I don't think. I would assume the Sonosax uses a lot more power putting out 48v phantom than most small pres like the CA-9100 or the various battery boxes made by Church and Sound Pros do...
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Can you redo the screenshot after changing the waveform scale to dB? (Just right-click the 0.0 - 1.0 scale and select the dB option.)
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Did you guys listen to the sample?
Low levels are not the only problem. There's also a ton of noise that drowns out the music.
Questions to the OP: Where did you set the levels, both on the Sonosax and the Edirol? Did you raise the volume in post?
I suspect something went wrong early in the chain, resulting in very low levels. You then tried to compensate that by turning the gain *way* up, but all you got was the amplified noise floor from the pre-amp and/or the mics with a little bit of music somehow coming through.
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Did you guys listen to the sample?
Oooo...just listened. Yeah, definitely not just a low level issue. The noise I'm hearing is much too loud and of the wrong character compared to what I've heard from mic/preamp self-noise before (this is more of a buzz than the hiss with which I'm familiar).
When you tested the gear and achieved good results...was everything exactly the same? Same settings, same cables, same batteries, etc.?
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Kinda sounds like the cable(s) didn't properly sit in the jacks.
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Can you redo the screenshot after changing the waveform scale to dB? (Just right-click the 0.0 - 1.0 scale and select the dB option.)
hey brian,
here you go:
(http://www.newmini-technik.de/images/u21.png)
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Kinda sounds like the cable(s) didn't properly sit in the jacks.
hi!
cables were connected 100%!
have checked that after i had recognized the "problem" when i tested the levels during the support act.
cheers
alex
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When you tested the gear and achieved good results...was everything exactly the same? Same settings, same cables, same batteries, etc.?
hi!
i have tested the gear with the exact same settings, so, same batteries, cables and so on!
alex
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Not really up with the gear used but my first thought is batteries.
hey dave,
batteries were 100% healthy and new/fully charged!
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Questions to the OP: Where did you set the levels, both on the Sonosax and the Edirol? Did you raise the volume in post?
hi!
the levels on the edirol were at 65 and on the sonosax at 50% (both channels), though it doesnt really make any difference whether the sonosax levels are set on 50 or 90% - it will/does not make the signal any louder.
alex
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It wouldn't be some sort of RF interference would it? I mean, it's hard to believe that it would continue the whole show, but I have had some sections where a doofus with a cell phone was talking next to me and it effed up my recordings, similiar buzzing noise. Could this be from something on stage maybe? It's certainly a long shot, but I wouldn't know what else would cause that noise. Just guessing of course, it's really hard to tell.
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my guess would be some kind of interference coming from something.
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my guess would be some kind of interference coming from something.
Maybe U2 have some kind of cunning anti-taping device? Far fetched, but I'm sure stranger things have happened.
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my guess would be some kind of interference coming from something.
This would not explain the low levels though.
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my guess would be some kind of interference coming from something.
This would not explain the low levels though.
good point
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Any chance you went mic in instead of line in by accident?
Taking a look at the frequency spectra the noise is at consistent frequency (for instance, major peak at 1430 hz and it's harmonics).
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Also, what is the plug-in power switch set to?
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my guess would be some kind of interference coming from something.
Maybe U2 have some kind of cunning anti-taping device? Far fetched, but I'm sure stranger things have happened.
U2 spy plane cold-war/Romulan cloaking device was likely the root design constraint of that gigantic war-of-the-worlds space robot towering over the stage and crowd, repressing all electromagnetic freedom within its arena event horizon. You didn't wrap your junk in foil? Duh.
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the levels on the edirol were at 65 and on the sonosax at 50% (both channels), though it doesnt really make any difference whether the sonosax levels are set on 50 or 90% - it will/does not make the signal any louder.
alex
Thats fishy... Have you tried the sax > edirol combo using a different P48 based mic. Second, have you run this exact setup without issue elsewhere?
Was there a specific reason why you didn't run the edirol as line-in and not mic in? The sax should have provided more then enough gain to prevent having to run the edirol in anything but line-in.
This is all presuming the sax works properly and isn't damaged. :-\
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Thats fishy... Have you tried the sax > edirol combo using a different P48 based mic. Second, have you run this exact setup without issue elsewhere?
Was there a specific reason why you didn't run the edirol as line-in and not mic in? The sax should have provided more then enough gain to prevent having to run the edirol in anything but line-in.
This is all presuming the sax works properly and isn't damaged. :-\
hi,
the at's are the only p48 based i currently own, so....dunno what would happen with a different brand/pair.
but...i have used this combo for round about 7 shows without any issues. back then i was using a d100 as a recorder though.
both, the sonosax and the edirol are in mint condition. the sax has only been used for 7 times and the edirol is brand new!
i used "line in" of course :)
cheers
mac
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This is all presuming the sax works properly and isn't damaged. :-\
the at's are the only p48 based i currently own, so....dunno what would happen with a different brand/pair.
Can you clarify which version of the AT853's you're running? The AT853Rx with hardwired phantom modules?
Are you saying that you tried the rig after the show, and now everything works OK again? In that case, I'd blame connectivity/cable issues.
Maybe a long shot, but it could be that the caps (bayonet mount) weren't snapped on properly. Or that the batteries inside the sax didn't sit tight...
Another recent discussion involves moisture that can spook certain mic capsules. Don't know if that was an issue at this outdoor gig?
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I did FFT of the pause between music... a screaching 1442 khz fundamental with high 2nd / 3rd harmonics is dominant . Sounds like a phantom PS gone bad & ocsilating