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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: roxia on October 17, 2009, 10:57:51 AM
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Hello everybody
I'm very new to this. I'm about to get my first rig that I can use to stealth-record concerts. Mainly rock/metal, but also funk and hiphop.
Recorder:
I've been looking on Zoom H4 (H4n) and Edirols R-09.
I think I will go with an Edirol R-09HR this time. Looks pretty good.
Preamp:
I'm not sure if I'm going to choose ST-9000 or ST-9100 - which one should suit me the best you think?
Mics:
I think I will go with Church Audio CA-14 here with cardios caps.
I don't think I will be needing the omni caps since I don't want to pick up the audience chatter on the recording.
I will be facing the stage (of course) and I believe the cardios caps will do just fine pick up the show. Am I wrong?
Do you guys think this will work out good?
I don't want to give more then 550 $ on this rig.
Is there any thing that I should be aware of? Is the rig above not that good? Should I change something?
What is import to remember to point out to Chris Church when I order the preamp and the microphones other than I want 3.5 mm jack instead of XLR jack.
All help would be extremely helpfull!
Remember, I'm new at this! :)
Thanks in advance.
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CA-14 > 9100 > R-09HR is a solid stealth rig. I would get the 9100 over the 9000 because I think the 9000 doesn't have variable gain like the 9100. People have different opinions about the omni vs cards question, but for an all around cap, I would recommend cards.
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su6oxone - Thank you very much.
Anyone else have any comments :) ?
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CA-14 > 9100 > R-09HR is a solid stealth rig. I would get the 9100 over the 9000 because I think the 9000 doesn't have variable gain like the 9100. People have different opinions about the omni vs cards question, but for an all around cap, I would recommend cards.
Agreed. This will be a more than solid rig for stealth recordings. Good luck with everything!
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What is import to remember to point out to Chris Church when I order the preamp and the microphones other than I want 3.5 mm jack instead of XLR jack?
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What is import to remember to point out to Chris Church when I order the preamp and the microphones other than I want 3.5 mm jack instead of XLR jack?
I'd go for CA-11 > 9100 > R-09HR.
The CA-11 are much better for stealth in my opinion vs the CA-14s. The CA-14s are much larger. This image was posted in another thread:
(http://hipfans.com/taping/CA-Mic-Comparison.jpg)
And with the CA-11s you get interchangeable caps - omnis and cards.
The Church mics come with 3.5mm standard (AFAIK) and the 9100 is 3.5mm standard (again AFAIK).
I've got CA-11s and CA-14s and the 9100 to run into my Tascam DR-1. A great open or stealth rig for the money.
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CA-14 > 9100 > R-09HR is a solid stealth rig.
Agreed. I have this exact setup.
The CA-14's can be stealthed. Smaller is always easier but I'll take the extra challenge if it improves my recordings.
Too many folks on this board that are timid based on size. Go big or go home. (same comments could apply in "the sewer")
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Is there a big difference between CA-14 and CA-11 quality/soundwise ?
Won't the CA-14 be a bit smaller without the windscreen?
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CA 14 wind screen can't be removed!
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Is there a big difference between CA-14 and CA-11 quality/soundwise ?
Won't the CA-14 be a bit smaller without the windscreen?
As jmbell said the windscreens on the CA-14 is permanently attached. And the omniscient and cards for the 14s are two separate mics and cables. The 11s have interchangeable caps, and removeable windscreens.
I find the sound from the 14s to be a bit fuller than the 11s - but it's not a huge difference. How do you plan on wearing your mics? I've clipped the 11s to the brim of my hat and my collar with grat results - these were at open tapng events but I chose to run lowpro.
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Since I will be stealthing, I will probably clips the mics on the top of my shirt.. maybe clips them to my necles.
I would be risking too much by putting the mics on a hat or something.
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Since I will be stealthing, I will probably clips the mics on the top of my shirt.. maybe clips them to my necles.
I would be risking too much by putting the mics on a hat or something.
It's really up to you - I say get the CA-11s. Others have suggested the CA-14s as the added "risk" is worth the resulting better sound. But clipped to your collar or necklace I believe the difference will be no existent.
Here's a show I recorded last weekend with CA-11s clipped to my collar: http://www.archive.org/details/HowieDay2009-10-10.CA11.flac16
(I'm upping a new version so you might get an error on this link for the next little while.)
And here's one I ran with the CA-11s on a stand: http://www.archive.org/details/erichutchinson2009-03-19.hipfans.aud.flac
And lastly here's the CA-14s: http://www.archive.org/details/Mnathanson2009-08-11-TorontoOn
Not perfect for comparing as there are a lot of variables but it'll get you headed in the right direction.
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Thank you very much printerguy
Do you use omni or cards on those recordings?
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Thank you very much printerguy
Do you use omni or cards on those recordings?
Howie Day: CA-11 Omnis
Eric Hutchinson: CA-11 Cardioids
Matt Nathanson: CA-14 Cardioids
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CA-14 > 9100 > R-09HR is a solid stealth rig. I would get the 9100 over the 9000 because I think the 9000 doesn't have variable gain like the 9100.
Slight correction, the 9000 has steppable gain IIRC: +10, +20, +30.
That said, CA-14 > 9100 > R-09HR is an ideal stealth rig.
And don't sweat it about being able to stealth the CA-14s. Most of us here carry much bigger loads thru security every time.
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Too many folks on this board that are timid based on size. Go big or go home.
I've been amazed myself at the desire for the tiniest equpment possible. I have no trouble stealthing with the CA-14s and I have no idea why anyone would prefer the CA-UGLY to the ST-9100. The ST-9100 is plently small enough to stealth with and the UGLY makes it almost impossible to change gain on the fly.
I agree with su6oxone that CA-14 > 9100 > R-09HR is an ideal stealth rig
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I have now ordered a Edirol R-09HR from the US.
I wrote this as well in another forum and someone was asking me why I ordered it from the US when I live in Europe. "Now you will end up with a 110v" - What do he mean and will that be a problem :( ?
I found it much cheaper to order the device from the US instead of Europe.
About warranty questions I have no idea.. but I'll have to figure that out if the device would break down under the warranty year.
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"Now you will end up with a 110v" - What do he mean and will that be a problem :( ?
He is referring to the AC adapter, which may or may not be 110V (I don't remember because I've never used it) only or universal (110/220V). It doesn't matter though since you will likely be using this device mostly with batteries.
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Is it better to use battery than charing it or what?
I guess if it's 110v I could buy a adapter or convert of some kind?
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Is it better to use battery than charing it or what?
You don't charge the recorder. You can use the A/C adapter to run it on A/C power instead of using batteries.
If you don't want to run the recorder plugged in to A/C, you'll never need the adapter. Even if you use rechargeable AA batteries as most of us do, you can't charge them in the recorder with the A/C adapter. You need to remove them and charge them in a battery charger.
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Hehe ok. Now I get it... Well I guess plugging in a A/C adapter while stealthing wouldn't be that easy and smart right ;) ? hahaha
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CA11 are very small and easy to conceal. The bass for the CA11 is there but not as deep as the CA14's. This is not a huge difference thou as others have noted above. Nice to have interchangeable caps with the CA11's and just bring them to the venue and make a decision there. I've even changed mine in my seat at 1/2 time for the headliner before.
The CA14's have deeper bass and Chris says the high end goes to 20,000. When I look at the high end in wavlab for the CA11 it looks like it goes to 17000+. So you get slightly more high end and bass on the CA14 but a lot harder to conceal. Either rig is acceptable and you can't go wrong with CA gear for the price. They both make good to very good recording. I had the St9000 and st9100 and did not hear that much difference in sound but chris did some improvements with the St9100 and I would go with that.
The higher placmeent of the mics usually you get a better recording IMO. I have many example on Dime under blues with the rig CA11 omni and card caps -> St9000 -> edirol09hr.
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So I got my Edirol R-09HR for a couple of days ago. I use it with GP Powerbank 2700 mAH battery's and a 8 gb Kingston Class 4 card. I've tried it at a bit and it works really good (not at a concert yet)
I'm a little curious though. How do you guys set the input levels so the peak light wont go on before the band starts to playing? It's kind of hard to do that before the band starts playing. Do you do it when there is a support act? Or you fixing it at the beginning of the first song of the band you actually want to tape?
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I don't have an HR, but with my recorders I start on the low side so I don't have to adjust during the first song (with 24 bit, it's no problem if you peak at -12 or so anyway).
Then if I want to change levels I adjust during the first applause or dead space between songs (makes it easy in post to hide where you changed your levels). With 24 bit, aim for peaks in the -6 to -12 dB range to avoid the chance of clipping.
Perhaps someone with an HR can suggest a good starting level depending on whether you are recording acoustic or something very loud. With nothing else to go on, you could use an opening act to pick a starting level. The headliner may well be a bit louder.
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It will be a rock concert indoors at a pretty small venue/club.