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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: dustinscottt on November 18, 2009, 03:07:42 PM
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:-\ I would like to know the good and the bad about the Zoom H-4.
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:-\ I would like to know the good and the bad about the Zoom H-4.
When you record with the internal batteries, there is a very subtle tone that gets recorded (sometimes called a "beep"). This does not happen when using the AC adapter or external battery packs.
Otherwise, I think it's quite good and I've made some excellent recordings with it, even with the built-in mics.
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:-\ I would like to know the good and the bad about the Zoom H-4.
When you record with the internal batteries, there is a very subtle tone that gets recorded (sometimes called a "beep"). This does not happen when using the AC adapter or external battery packs.
Otherwise, I think it's quite good and I've made some excellent recordings with it, even with the built-in mics.
isnt that only with the phantom on?
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It is possible to make an excellent sounding recording with it (in the right circumstances) as Dogmusic has done, but there are so many better choices out there. There is a reason why very few regular taperssection contributors use one as their main recorder.
The built in mics are quite good, but otherwise it sucks. It's faults are too numerous to mention, particularly for stealth recording. The pres are not quiet, it will distort at very high sound pressure levels, and it's not at all intuitive to use among its myriad of other problems. The tone Dogmusic mentioned occurs whether phantom power is on or off. And apart from the tone, the preamps when fed by phantom power are quite noisy with many (most?) mics.
Worst money I ever spend on taping equipment. Want to buy mine?
Read guysonics review:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm
Look for this line in the review:
However, the limited high frequency bandwidth (which was measured several times because I couldn't believe it to be that bad) was the showstopper removing any hope of serious use as a recorder.
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It is possible to make an excellent sounding recording with it (in the right circumstances) as Dogmusic has done, but there are so many better choices out there. There is a reason why very few regular taperssection contributors use one as their main recorder.
The built in mics are quite good, but otherwise it sucks. It's faults are too numerous to mention, particularly for stealth recording. The pres are not quiet, it will distort at very high sound pressure levels, and it's not at all intuitive to use among its myriad of other problems. The tone Dogmusic mentioned occurs whether phantom power is on or off. And apart from the tone, the preamps when fed by phantom power are quite noisy with many (most?) mics.
Worst money I ever spend on taping equipment. Want to buy mine?
Read guysonics review:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm
Look for this line in the review:
However, the limited high frequency bandwidth (which was measured several times because I couldn't believe it to be that bad) was the showstopper removing any hope of serious use as a recorder.
I went through through three different H4's (replaced on warranty for various problems). The last one seemed better than the first two, so when I said "I think it's quite good", it's based on that particular machine.
I think Zoom went about correcting some things in this unit, but on the quiet, so nobody would want a recall, because I've made some field recordings and grand piano which were really good and could not be said to suffer from limited highs.
That said, I agree with fmaderjr that there are many better choices out there now, like the SONY M10, so you'd have to be buying the H4 real cheap to make it worth the bother, i.e., the unwanted tone with internal batteries.
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Here's a piano recording made with the H4. I use it beside my (out-of-tune) piano for a scratch pad these days.
http://www.box.net/shared/jn2sg0ygty
Fostex stereo condenser mic (MC11S), XLR straight in to H4, phantom power on, AC adapter. Recorded 24/96, but the file is 16/44.1.
The gain has been raised in Audacity. I thought a quiet section with sustained notes might expose the H4 a bit more.
My apologies for the large file size.
Maybe somebody can analyze this recording for the high frequencies. It sounds pretty good to me. But my ears are a bit baffed from too many hours playing beside loud amps, and one too many recording engineers sending feedback through the cans by mistake.
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I made 2 recordings with my Zoom H4 and both sounded good to me as well. I couldn't hear the problem in the highs that guysonic describes. However the machine was totally unintuitive and confusing to use and with external mics, to change levels you have to do it one mic at a time (using a menu system-you don't have 2 separate controls for each channel so there's a significant time delay involved). Those reasons alone would be enough to cause me to discourage anyone from buying one.
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with external mics, to change levels you have to do it one mic at a time (using a menu system
I agree. The H4 menu system with the jog wheel, etc., is a pain. But I never bothered setting levels in the menu and always just use the physical volume switches on the side for H-M-L settings.
I think it was Ozpeter who determined that using the menu for level changes will not prevent input clipping or distortion because the signal is already past the A-D stage.
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Spectrum of the sample recording is now below. Bandwidth of this recording seems to mostly have sounds below 10,000 Hz, but hard to tell for sure if maybe just limitations of mic and piano being played quietly.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/H4+FOSTEX MICS SAMPLE SPECTRUM.jpg)
Below is spectrum of 16bit/44.1K solo piano using different gear with downloadable 21meg sample at www.sonicstudios.com/JERRY KUDERNA 13 16BIT44.1SAMPLE.wav (http://www.sonicstudios.com/JERRY KUDERNA 13 16BIT44.1SAMPLE.wav)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/JERRY KUDERNA 13 16BIT44.jpg)
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that piano sounds great!
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Spectrum of the sample recording is now below. Bandwidth of this recording seems to mostly have sounds below 10,000 Hz
Yikes! I guess my ears ARE baffed.
On the other hand, the second piano recording, which sounds really good and is played a lot more in the higher register, appears to tail off after 10k also, though not as drastically as the H4.
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I think it was Ozpeter who determined that using the menu for level changes will not prevent input clipping or distortion because the signal is already past the A-D stage.
Correct. When using external mini-mics, I would set the H4 at low sensitivity and menu at 100 for anything loud (so the meters will tell you if you are clipping) and use a ST-9100 to increase or decrease levels from there. Then there's no danger of clipping, but as we've said the machine has other problems. There's nothing you can do to eliminate this problem when using the internals (the H2 is the same, but apparently not the H4n).
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I think it was Ozpeter who determined that using the menu for level changes will not prevent input clipping or distortion because the signal is already past the A-D stage.
Correct. When using external mini-mics, I would set the H4 at low sensitivity and menu at 100 for anything loud (so the meters will tell you if you are clipping) and use a ST-9100 to increase or decrease levels from there. Then there's no danger of clipping, but as we've said the machine has other problems. There's nothing you can do to eliminate this problem when using the internals (the H2 is the same, but apparently not the H4n).
Sorry, I thought you were saying previously that you used the H4 menu system to adjust record levels for external mics which, as you point out here, is not the way to use the H4. In fact, the mic>preamp>line-in set-up makes sense even with much better machines (particularly for loud situations).
When using the internals, I just moved the machine if levels were too hot even for low sensitivity, and I never had distortion problems, but then my usage was not for loud bands.
The H4 usually gets a bad rap, probably deservedly so for the most part. The OP asked for experiences good and bad and I had some good ones.
Even the spectrum graphs posted above are a little surprising to me. The H4 recording looks worse than it sounds (at least to these tired old ears). And the second recording sounds better than it looks.
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I agree with you for the most part, Dogmusic. I could make good sounding recordings with it if I needed too, but just find it too much of a pain in the ass to use with all the better options out there. I do like the sound of the internal mics though.
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The H4 was a milestone in recording, but newer devices are much better.
I borrowed an H4, and had a great time making ambient recordings. After doing some research, I ended up purchasing a Sony M10 (I don't plan to use external mics). The cost difference between an H4 and the M10 is pretty small, so it was an easy decision to make.
If you are really on a tight budget, the H2 might be a better choice. If you need external mics, go with a high quality recorder - your recorder will probably be the least expensive piece of equipment you purchase.
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The H4 was a milestone in recording, but newer devices are much better.
Don't you mean mill stone?
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The H4 was a milestone in recording, but newer devices are much better.
Don't you mean mill stone?
Now I wish I had called it a landmark recorder, so you could have called it a landmine.
H4: could be a great value if used or on closeout cheap. Current street price is way too high compared to competition. Even the H4n is probably a much better choice new.
Seriously, though, it is hard to recommend a recorder without knowing what the OP's use cases are.