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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: RAQnasty on February 11, 2010, 01:10:01 PM
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hi
I am fairly new to open taping, but have been stealth taping for a few years... i recently bought an edirol R-09hr and was using CA-11 cardiods with the STC-9000 preamp.
I am looking into starting to open tape and the question I have is would i be better off throwing down $300-400 on something like the Rode NT4 or should I just use the CA-11 setup mentioned above to open tape?
(alternatively, can someone suggest a good open mic that we be easy to use with the r-09hr in the 300-400 price range?)
thanks, any help appreciated
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the microphones you mentioned can also be used for open taping. you'll need a light stand to act as a mic stand as well as some kind of way to mount the mics to the stand. have you though of using these as open mics?
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well i guess thats the question, is it worth open taping with these mics, or should i look at something like the NT4?
I mean can anyone vouch for the sound quality i would get with the CA/preamp setup? Would it be comparable to using the NT4 (or similar mic) or is it a waste of time to be messing with those mics for open taping?
I would be all for using those and not spending any more $$$, but at the same time I don't to get a sub-par recording if the NT4 would make a large difference in quality.
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I've used my CA-11s for open taping with great results. Here's a link to a track from a show I taped with CA-11 > 9100 > Tascam DR-1: http://hipfans.com/mp3/tth2009-05-09d2t08.mp3
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that sounds pretty good... maybe i will just run with the mics i have... stands look pretty cheap... i am sure i could figure out how to mount them, not worried about that...
hmmm... thanks
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I've taped quite a few shows open with those mics/that preamp. Definitely good recordings and well worth it.
Here are a couple:
http://www.archive.org/details/ae2008-07-10.ca11.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/jmayer2008-07-12.ca11.flac16
Also, there are quite a few threads on how to mount them. Here is a quick one that came up in a search. I think if you also check the older Team Church Audio threads, you will find a few discussions on the subject.
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if you get an NT4 and use the pre amp you have in between the mic and the recorder you may not get what you expect. a lot of people use something like a sound devices mix pre in between the recorder and mic but since you would be recording loud music, it may work all right for you.
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if i were to go the NT4 route, i would probably use battery power and not mess with the pre...
but from what i am hearing, i am better off to just rig up my CA-11s and run with them...probably not a bad place to start.
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If the mics are good enuogh for stealth taping, why would they not work great for open taping. Don't be intimidated with the size of yor mics when you are in an OTS. I used my ca11's for quite some time before I bought a "proper" open rig.
Mako
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Local bands can't believe the quality I am able to get from open taping with my CA mics. I'd still do a lot of open taping with them if it wasn't for my Busmans.
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See my avatar for a picture of me running my CA-14's at Counting Crows two years ago. I've uploaded a .flac of "Mr Jones" for you to review, but needless to say, I'm absolutely delighted with how the tape came out. This was CA-14's > CA-9100 Pre > iRiver H120 RockBox (v.060803-2007), mics flying at just a tad above head height.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y7TZCHE8
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I've done it. Just get a stand, preferably one that not only has the 5/8" stud but a 1/4 X 20 thread too. Many do. Then its easy to rig up something to clip the mics to. I used three angle brackets, some nuts and bolts and an 1/4 X 20 threaded coupling to make something that I could clip to. It works great and took me all of about ten minutes to make. You can get all the parts at a good hardware store. You might want to invest in a good extension cable for the mics though. You can get one that has gold plated connectors at Radio Shack and it works fine. Stepping up to some CA-14 mics would be a good investment later on.
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Hey thank you all a whole bunch... ill have a go with the CA setup and see what happens... i have been amazingly impressed with the stealth shows ive used it for, so no reason at this point to buy something else...
rigging the stand should be easily done.
again, thanks for the help.
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I have thought of replacing that top angle bracket with something circular so I could clip the mics at various angles. But I think I'm going to get one of these (picture) and adapt it to fit the sand.
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I have thought of replacing that top angle bracket with something circular so I could clip the mics at various angles. But I think I'm going to get one of these (picture) and adapt it to fit the stand.
http://www.amazon.com/Dual-Helping-Hands-with-Magnifier/dp/B0002BBZ2Y
Just remove the base and magnifying glass.
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This will work with CA-11's and can run different set ups.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-GNA-3
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I'd say figure out a mount, and run what you have for now. You can pull a good tape with that. If you are lucky, there will be other tapers at these shows with other rigs, and you listen afterwards and compare.
I suggest would play with the different mic setups, like XY, DIN, ORTF and that kind of thing, which effects the result sound quite a bit. Trying different combos doesn't cost you anything. Cut up a wire coathanger, use a little duct tape, make something cheap to run these tests and decide which pattern suits your ears, and make a "nice" mount for that pattern.
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I'm still using the set-up from the pics in this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=122363.msg1631668#msg1631668
I've swapped out the rubber band with black nylon stretch cord (four of my daughters ponytail holders) and sprayed it black. Still works fine. I've marked the top of the ruler for the alligator clips for DIN and ORTF.
I bought a piece of stick-on velcro and put it on the back of my 9100 pre. I then put a velcro cable tie around my stand to stick it to. Another velcro cable tie around that secures it pretty well.
I bought a gorillapod knockoff that I use to attach my recorder (PCM D50) to the stand. It makes
for a very mobile set-up if moving is necessary. It can be seen in this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129839.0
I've made some really good recordings with the CA-11s. They will do just fine for open taping.
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if i were to go the NT4 route, i would probably use battery power and not mess with the pre...
It would be a waste of money to get the NT4's if you are going to use the 1/8 output. The CA-14's are actually going to sound better, especially if you are using a Church Audio Pre.
NT4's sound great on Phantom power but not as good when running on the 9 volt battery.
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ill second this...
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-GNA-3
been using it since i started taping a couple years ago. might not be the "best" method of this but ive found it works quite well with the CA-11s with clips. the cables on my 11s are long enough to attach the pre(with hairties) somewhere else on the stand. put the hairtie around the middle of the pre(between the gain switch and the cord going into the input or output. be sure to have it facing upwards in order for easy adjustments. have the recorder wherever, in hand, on a box, table, bar, etc. another way to mount the 11s is a clipped on a hat.
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if i were to go the NT4 route, i would probably use battery power and not mess with the pre...
It would be a waste of money to get the NT4's if you are going to use the 1/8 output. The CA-14's are actually going to sound better, especially if you are using a Church Audio Pre.
NT4's sound great on Phantom power but not as good when running on the 9 volt battery.
in other words, get a pre if you want the NT4... ;D
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I have never tried this - I would guess crowd noise could compromise the quality. This would be more flexible as far as mobility, convenience...
i figure if i lay out the small cost for a stand the quality would be better... i dont know though, the hat method is a nice idea - especially since i will be flying to my next show and i figure getting the stand through an airport these days is annoying....
well maybe i go CA-11/pre clipped on hat - if so i already have all i need!