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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: refrain on March 16, 2010, 06:59:52 AM
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Hello all,
I know this is a ancient recorder, surely there're lots of threads about it, but can anyone point strenghts and problems with it, in a simple manner? Preamps noise, battery, handling in the field... I'll be recording mostly outdoors, nature stuff, ambients and Fx, perhaps some concerts, main mics: shure VP88, MS AKG blue line pair ck91/94, rode NTG3... The obviuos choice would be a SD 702, but is too much for may budget... I recorded during 3 weeks with a SD722, and... it's a dream machine... but way out my budget...
Thanks,
CS
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http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92774.0.html (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92774.0.html)
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Thank you, lots of reading...
But they all seem very concert tapping oriented...
thanks Eric,
CS
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But they all seem very concert tapping oriented...
That's the bulk of what we do here though. :)
The FR2-LE is a bit bulky in size. I had a Busman mod done to mine, but I believe someone here did an A-B comparison with a stock model and it was tough to tell the difference. Many use a 7.2v battery to run it. It's either that or lithium AA's.
I was looking for an all-in-one that was something less than the price point of the SD7xx's. It fits the bill, however the Marantz 661 was not on the market when I bought my FR2-LE. Users here like it right out of the box, so it's another recorder to consider.
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And what about preamps, comparing 661 with the FR2 LE?
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I know this is a ancient recorder.....
Not at all, only a couple of years.
When I reviewed it for LineUp magazine I said it was probably the cheapest recorder that could be called "professional".
It is a very nice machine for the price - the closest other being the Tascam HD-P2 - the mic. pres. are very nice for the price and is quite capable of doing quite serious stuff.
If you can't afford an SD 702 or a Nagra LB it's a good little beastie.
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From what I read here and all over the net, you only go from the FR2 LE to a SD, the Tascam sits more less halfway, costing much more and not adding significative features (only perhaps TC), and reminds me of my ancient DA-P1, sturdy, but huge to carry...
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From what I read here and all over the net, you only go from the FR2 LE to a SD, the Tascam sits more less halfway, costing much more and not adding significative features (only perhaps TC), and reminds me of my ancient DA-P1, sturdy, but huge to carry...
I'd agree with that statement.
I ran the fostex and now have a 722. My opinion: for nature recording, if you have really low self-noise mics and will be recording quiet stuff, then consider a preamp to go with it, otherwise for general urban soundscapes (or nature stuff which won't require quite as much gain), I'd be ok with it.
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I love my furtoolee. great price point, super easy to use, runs forever on a 7.2 racecar battery, great specs out of the box. the only thing I'd like to see on it is a digi in/out - which isn't an issue for you.
for nature/ambient recording a preamp would help, or consider the oade super mod for an all in one solution at a lower price point. It's said to be designed just for your application, and you gotta love the single box application:
http://oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/FR-2LE_upgrades.html
the oade brothers are legendary in this community. in addition to upgrading the op amps, caps, etc., there's a certain mojo to an oade "performance enhanced" recorder.
busman and others in these parts can also do similar mods.
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The FR2-LE is a good choice if you need quiet preamps and XLR inputs
with phantom power. The similarly priced Marantz PMD661 deserves
consideration if you also are interested in SPDIF digital input. Both the
PMD661 and FR2-LE are available from Oade with preamp upgrade if you
think you need to improve the preamp further.
Flintstone
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If you decide on the 2le and you obtain/acquire it, read the post below about the stock vs. mod. it was my unmodified 2le that was tested.
I think a lot of people are thrown off by the 2le because of the noisy, hissy headphone amp but I don't expect it to be hissy when you're actually recording.
Stock FR2LE vs. Busman T-Mod FR2LE true side by side comparison (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=113128.0)
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Thank you for all your inputs, oade brothers is out of my league, only american continent, I live in europe... and to pay for that I would think twice about going SD... I want a all-in-one machine, for other stuff, I have the zoom H4n and the MT ring... I really don't like Marantz stuff (very subjective here... sorry, but they built for reporters... only my opinion...) a few years ago I tested the 660, very bad preamps (hissy) and clipping all over the place... I didn't test the 661 (different build up)... I'm more and more on the way to the Fostex...
Thank you all for your time, it's always a pleasure to be in this forum,
CS
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Chiming in to say I love my stock FR2LE too. I wish there was a way to lock down the level controls (although they're reasonably well protected from unintentional bumps), otherwise it's all I could ask for from a 2-channel device at or anywhere near its price range.
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Just FYI for others who are willing to consider Marantz:
The PMD661 is quite a bit better than the PMD660.
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i think the fr2le is a great box. all the recordings i made with it sounded great (save for user error).
one big plus of the le over other models is the battery life. it has battery life more comprable to a pcmd50 than any marantz box.
though it is plastic, it still feels solid.
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I was tossing around between the FR2LE and Korg MR-1000 when I was gonna get a field recorder. I got a used MR-1000 for about the same price as a fostex + CF card. The fostex does have onboard mics and RCA outs (not that you'll use them, but for the budget conscious types...).
Ultimately for me it came down to battery life. I was looking at recording rehearsals (middle of a corn field) of a band I was performing in. The 15 minute setup and power tether needs of a laptop didn't suit the situation. Rehearsals typically being 5 hour blocks. So the 2.5 hours of 8x AAs on 48V needy mics of the Korg meant I could sneak in a battery change on a break and not miss much. The fostex with only 4x AAs left me wondering. Factor in CF cards (not that high of a capacity at that time) versus 40GB internal HDD and for me the Korg was a clear winner. But the fostex appeared to be one nice machine. It just didn't have the specs for my needs.
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The fostex with only 4x AAs left me wondering.
But the beauty of the Fostex is it can run on a 7.2V RC battery INTERNALLY. Which will last way longer than 8xAA in the Korg. Easily over 6 hours with Audix M1290s which take a lot of juice.
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There's non-off the shelf battery options for the korg too. 10+ hours. And at DSD, a 40GB HDD is roughly 8 hours of content at the highest setting. The Korg does have a 6 hour session limit however. And for editing purposes it helps to keep audio segments at or less than 1 hour chunks.
The onboard mics and preamps on the fostex do seem pretty tops. I've heard a lot of nice nature recordings made with that unit. I would never consider using the korgs built in preamps for such a task. But the converters on my Korg are simply amazing. Even just using it as an MP3 player is something to be experienced. And since I'm a weekend only type, the MP3 player route sees as much use as the field recorder aspect of said unit.
Supplimented with a decent external preamp and it probably doesn't matter much what device is ultimately on the backend. If you're looking to save a few bucks, that might be an option you'd consider. There's a number of roughly similar in price preamp options that can make much cheaper field recording like devices shine. It really depends on why you want a field recorder. Fewer things to put batteries in? Fewer pieces of kit to carry / items to claim on a customs form? Immunity to the intended environment(s)? Highest quality audio on battery power only? Lots of options for various purposes.
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The fostex with only 4x AAs left me wondering.
But the beauty of the Fostex is it can run on a 7.2V RC battery INTERNALLY. Which will last way longer than 8xAA in the Korg. Easily over 6 hours with Audix M1290s which take a lot of juice.
thank for your info, one of the things i've been looking around is this battery everyone talks, 7.2V RC, i found a brand, Tamiya (wich is used ion toys), but i find it hard to have it in europe, does anyone know similar brands easy to find here in europe? what kind of battery is this? and the life difference between the 4xAA?
I want a all in one field recorder with quiet preamps for the mentioned mics in the begining of the thread, using it oudoor for ambient, efx and some concerts... without going into SD territory... :-)
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.....i've been looking around is this battery everyone talks, 7.2V RC, i found a brand, Tamiya (wich is used ion toys), but i find it hard to have it in europe, does anyone know similar brands easy to find here in europe? what kind of battery is this? and the life difference between the 4xAA?
It's at least double the time of the AA batteries and the Fostex distributor in the UK sells them - as well as the fast charger.
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You can buy RC batteries at Model Shops in Europe.
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I finally got the FR2 LE, also found here in Portugal a RC 7,2 volts battery and charger...
Didn't open it yet, but next sunday I'll be testing it in a video production context with a NTG3...
Thinking about taking it along with me on a trip to Beijing and Xangai next week... with the MS pair and the VP88...
but I don't know how chinese deal with this kind of objects on bag entering the country... I intended to record
some ambiences, voices, etc, in China... but... anyone did that, I mean, without written permission/official, just
material for my own library?
CS
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I finally got the FR2 LE, also found here in Portugal a RC 7,2 volts battery and charger...
Didn't open it yet, but next sunday I'll be testing it in a video production context with a NTG3...
Thinking about taking it along with me on a trip to Beijing and Xangai next week... with the MS pair and the VP88...
but I don't know how chinese deal with this kind of objects on bag entering the country... I intended to record
some ambiences, voices, etc, in China... but... anyone did that, I mean, without written permission/official, just
material for my own library?
CS
As much as I like my fr2le, its not something I would want to take into a foreign country especially with a vp88. If you want ambient sounds, I would recommend a small recorder (MD or 09, 09hr, m10, d50) and a pair of high sensitivity Binaural mics.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2
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I was planning on going just with the H4n and a pair of Church audio binaural mics, but Chris wasn't able to build them in time, so I will borrow a sonic studio DSM pair from a friend...
First impressions on the FR2 LE, built quality, very plastic... really, not sturdy, some parts even shake (my H4n is plastic, but robust, you don't feel this) the battery door is a design mistake, hard to change batteries... the menu system is very japanese, confusing, poor written software, you have to format the card in a specific file format, before start recording, if you have to change sampling format, you have to put another card... and choose if it is stereo or mono... incredible... the operating system is a nightmare... feels like windows... :-)
But the sound quality of the preamps is quite good, did some tests indoors with the rode and akg, you hear noise, but it comes from headphone amp, I can live with that, and also with the above... is this the price difference from the SD's? I mean you have to pay a lot for a decent operating system, robust build...
Anyway and despite all, I like the recorder, the main thing, preamps are very good... I will put it to test on the next days, until China...
Thank you for all the inputs...
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confusing, poor written software, you have to format the card in a specific file format, before start recording, if you have to change sampling format, you have to put another card... and choose if it is stereo or mono... incredible... the operating system is a nightmare... feels like windows... :-)
Wow. I don't recall anyone here ever mentioning those significant details and limitations.
is this the price difference from the SD's? I mean you have to pay a lot for a decent operating system, robust build...
The 7xx are pretty much exceptionally engineered and thought out in every way.
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confusing, poor written software, you have to format the card in a specific file format, before start recording, if you have to change sampling format, you have to put another card... and choose if it is stereo or mono... incredible... the operating system is a nightmare... feels like windows... :-)
Wow. I don't recall anyone here ever mentioning those significant details and limitations.
I don't think many folks on a music recording board have much use for mono files. For bit depth and bit rate, most of us have our mastering format of choice and that's what we stick with. And of course we'd never dare use the MP3 setting! It's too bad none of us realized that would matter to the OP though.
Feels like Windows? Nah, it's not that bad. More like unix. Not exactly inviting, but it gets the job done.
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I don't think many folks on a music recording board have much use for mono files. For bit depth and bit rate, most of us have our mastering format of choice and that's what we stick with. And of course we'd never dare use the MP3 setting! It's too bad none of us realized that would matter to the OP though.
Feels like Windows? Nah, it's not that bad. More like unix. Not exactly inviting, but it gets the job done.
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Do get me wrong... i like the recorder... but you know working with a SD is very easy, you can change setups on the fly... going from a mono (shotgun) to a stereo config (MS akg or VP88), or even going from 48 to 44... even the H4n does that very easy...
I started recording ambience, efx, concerts, etc back in 91 with a sony TCD7, than got into a DA-P1 (had a sharp MD, but pain in ass to transfer files to the computer, dac to adc) and I entered the solid state era with a MT2496, nice to work very small, stereo preamp on the front, but the internal battery just stop working, I waited and got the H4n against the DR-100, cheaper with MS on board, 4 channels, the works... and it delivers... but I needed good preamps in a all-in-one machine, only this one (FR2 LE) and the SD's because of the size...
But the SD´s are really expensive... so here I'am, but is kind of strange that after 5 years or more of solid state/HD portable recording (Hi-res 96/192), the machines still look very primitive in terms of operating systems flexibility... not so different from dat... well they're still audio recorders... but they have microprocessors in there... there's also the question of power, they have to keep things simple, not drain the batteries...
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The FR2 has few of the limitations the LE has. You can change the sample rate and bit depth on the fly. It will recognize cards and recordings made on the LE but the LE will only recognize recordings made on it. It may have some plastic but is mostly metal. Battery door is only marginally better than on the LE - 8xAA but also will work with a variety of externals though nothing about that in the manual. Personally I like the control layout of the FR2 better, many options are made using switches, not navigating through a menu. Only thing I like about the LE better than the FR2 is size - the LE is less than half the size of the FR2. I own both and use the FR2 at least 75% of the time but in some situations, when size matters, the LE is the better choice.
< If price is a primary consideration then the FR2 is probably not for you. It occupies the middle ground between a 2LE and any of the SD boxes. >
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There's a few PITA issues with the fostex. Like if you loose power without batteries in the unit.
The only issue I've had is the battery life kind of sucks on the MR-1000 with 48V phantom enabled (2100mAh NiMH). I'm able to change recording resolutions, not while recording afaik. But I don't need to do anything other than change those settings. The only issues I'm aware of with the Korg is that if you record past the 6 hour session limit you'll have issues. And it wont playback formats that it doesn't record. i.e. 16/96 i.e. MONO MP3, and others. Although the latest firmware upgrade might have addressed some of that. I did have one issue on playback with the latest firmware, on a one hour-ish concert it froze M$ style a little past halfway on the 2nd time through. Batteries inside, and power tethered to the wall. No such issues while recording (yet). But I'm not exactly wearing the unit out as a weekend warrior.