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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: stevetoney on April 14, 2010, 06:52:59 PM
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I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I don't really remember...
I personally prefer to just stick the encore break onto the end of the last track before the actual encore...IOW I don't make a separate track for the encore break because I figure that's one less button to push if I want to skip to the next song...push track forward once instead of twice. I've contemplated cutting out the break altogether, but I've decide against that for two reasons; first the encore chants just seem an integral part of all concerts, and the encore break (to me anyway) is part of the total show duration. It seems like I'm in the minority though and that most people will track the break as a separate track.
Anyody have strong feelings about this or is there an 'officially unofficial' TS protocol?
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I usually break the encore break out as a separate track, including all banter up until the actual first song of the encore starts. But that's just how I prefer to listen to things myself.
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I usually track it where the song begins leaving all of the pre-encore tuning/banter/crowd at the end of the previous track.
Some people are ridiculously track happy. Like adding seven banter tracks throughout totalling three minutes combined.
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Encore break tacked onto previous track. Same with any kind of banter or story-telling -- I just tack it onto the previous track UNLESS the musician is playing an extended intro to the song WHILE talking, in which case I start the new track.
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I only put a separate track if it's a long break or there's banter
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I add the encore break as a separate track. I start a new track when the encore song, not banter, begins.
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With me, it depends on how long the break is.
Under 3 minutes, and it goes on the end of the last track.
5 minutes or more, and it gets it's own track.
Between 3 and 5 minutes is kind of a no-mans-land for me.
Depends on how the break feels, if there is anything of note (chanting, etc)
Same method I use for between song talks.
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I only put a separate track if it's a long break or there's banter
Yeah, I do this, depending on what's happening on the tape...
Terry
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I just make the break its own track -- that way the playlist in foobar doesn't disappoint (woah a 12 minute version of song abc? no, 5 minutes of that is crowd noise). I've recently become what I guess you call a "track happy" person and put most banter into separate tracks. That way it all makes more sense when you listen to a track out of the context of the full concert which is what I do a majority of the time lately.
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I like it tracked separately as I think song track timings should be timings of music, not crowd noise.
In addition, it gives folks the option to delete it, not burn it etc if it means space savings.
I only include banter as part of a tune strictly if it's a meaningful song introduction, as I feel it adds to the listening experience of that tune, preferably only if it's within a reasonable amount of time before the tune starts. Any other non song specific related banter I leave at the end of the previous track.
There's something to be said for expecting the music to begin instantly or almost instant of starting a track (thus my belief of having an intro/tuning track). I hate firing up a show, kicking back and waiting for the tune to begin when I could have skipped the band walking out on stage/tuning.
2 cents.
EDIT: I strongly disagree with deleting the encore break. The show should stay in tack. It's all about the experience. I did this once but it was only with the 16 bit version, and won't do it again.
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Depends on length. >1 min I usually make a cut after 20-30 sec., then fade out with 3-5 sec. fade in to start next track.
I also create separate banter tracks generally if banter is > 1 min or any time they introduce the musicians. I'll go < 1 min. if the banter is significant/important, and not just chit chat.
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I'm in the new track if it is long club. I can't stand a track with a ton of noise at the end. I wait, expecting something to happen, then wish I just skipped ahead.
JAson
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I usually let the last song roll for about 10 seconds of the crowd. cut track and if its 3-5 minutes of crowd shouting, I'll shorten it up to a minute or so and then have the encore track at the very end. the crowd cheering is nice but 3-5 minutes is just too much to hear. during this time, glass bottles become very audible being thrown away and I don't think that is completely necessary.
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separate track for reasons listed above (13min rendition? fail....). The exception is if it's a really short encore "break".
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I usually track it where the song begins leaving all of the pre-encore tuning/banter/crowd at the end of the previous track.
This is what I do. Even if there is pre-song banter, I am really only concerned with the song.
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I'm in the new track if it is long club. I can't stand a track with a ton of noise at the end. I wait, expecting something to happen, then wish I just skipped ahead.
JAson
That's 1/2 of my reasoning, as well. It was reinforced by some band members who provided feedback that they didn't like the drawn out banter at the end of given tracks and would prefer a separate track or removal of banter altogether (which I won't commit to).
I also know most of the musicians I record, so I generally know well enough when they'd prefer I cut out certain stuff altogether, though (nervous banter, jokes that went nowhere, gratuitous tuning, etc.).
For us tapers it's about the whole show experience. The musicians don't often see it that way. As time goes by I'm more in tune with their likes/dislikes, and have grown more interested in individual songs vs. entire performances. That, of course, means more time in post production than I'd like, but it is what it is, I guess. :)
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I usually track it where the song begins leaving all of the pre-encore tuning/banter/crowd at the end of the previous track.
This is what I do. Even if there is pre-song banter, I am really only concerned with the song.
Ditto. One song, one track. No one wants to listen to a track full of just crowd noise. I don't even include the pre-song banter/intro/drumstick count-off at the beginning of ANY of my tracks...the first note of the song is the first thing you hear.
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I usually track it where the song begins leaving all of the pre-encore tuning/banter/crowd at the end of the previous track.
This is what I do. Even if there is pre-song banter, I am really only concerned with the song.
Ditto. One song, one track. No one wants to listen to a track full of just crowd noise. I don't even include the pre-song banter/intro/drumstick count-off at the beginning of ANY of my tracks...the first note of the song is the first thing you hear.
I'm a big proponent of beginning a track with the drum-stick countoff.
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I'm definitely more of the document the evening, capture what was going on in that room that night, energy between the band and audience etc., so I think count offs, song intros, and keeping the encore break have value.
All about the live experience, as opposed to tracking it like I'm cutting an album.
Each show is unique (with most acts who permit taping), so I think it's important to document to entire experience.
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i put mine at the end of the last song no matter what
i actually hate the encore break as its own track
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I'm a big proponent of beginning a track with the drum-stick countoff.
Ditto
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I'm a big proponent of beginning a track with the drum-stick countoff.
Ditto
thirded
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I like to have a little intro banter before the song.
I grew up listening to live hard rock albums. So to me a little introduction is part of the live song.
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I usually break the encore break out as a separate track, including all banter up until the actual first song of the encore starts. But that's just how I prefer to listen to things myself.
Ditto
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I track it as a separate track. I also try to pay some attention to total time, for people who burn cd's sometimes having it tracked separately and being able to drop that track when burning can make the difference whether a show fits on 1 cd or 2. Albeit that doesn't happen too terribly often.
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I'm a big proponent of beginning a track with the drum-stick countoff.
Ditto
thirded
i'll join the party.
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I track it as a separate track. I also try to pay some attention to total time, for people who burn cd's sometimes having it tracked separately and being able to drop that track when burning can make the difference whether a show fits on 1 cd or 2. Albeit that doesn't happen too terribly often.
Good point.
If total time is that close, I would probably loose a bit of the encore break to keep from going to another disc.
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I never track encore breaks. If at the end of the show there is a long crowd space, I will fade out and chop, and then fade in with the beginning of the encore. If there are multiple encores, then I leave the crowd noise between tracks. Whilst I agree that it is important to let the show remain intact, I still feel that there isn't a real need to hear crowd noise for several minutes unless something special happens during that period that is relevant to the performance.
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I'm a big proponent of beginning a track with the drum-stick countoff.
Ditto
thirded
i'll join the party.
yo
As for encore breaks, I generally don't separate it
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I don't cut the break as a separate track since a guy has distributed one of my tapes with that particular track removed by him.
The encore break included banter. It's part of the show and I don't think it has to be removed.
Most people will be too lazy to open the last track of the first set in an audio editor and cut the encore break by hand.
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To me, it varies with artist. I like folk music. With Christy Moore, for example, who really knows how to pace a show, the spoken intros are always short and relevant to the next track, so the track starts at the end of applause. With others, who take 10 minutes to introduce a 3 minute song, I make it a seperate track and ensure skipping it doesn't detract from the performance or make you lose the sense of what's going on.
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I'm with Dean on this. I track banter and encores separately. If you want to listen to them, great. If not, hit >>. Call it ridiculously track happy if you want, but its my show, and I get to do what I want.
Oh and extended applause, silence, and tuning gets deleted.