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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: shadowfax1007 on July 01, 2010, 04:47:22 AM
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I've got a few little gig's coming up soon, I own a Olympus LS-10 and figure I'll give it a shot at recording concerts. I've heard mixed reviews about its concert performance, some people swear by it, others love it but EQ the final result, some people hate it. Now I don't want this to turn into a "internal mics are shit, use externals" etc thread, I already intend to purchase some externals before an important show later this year. What I'm hoping for is some advice on settings to use.
The first gig I'll be taping is outdoors on a beach, so the mic's will be windscreened. The second gig is inside a small venue. Both are rock gigs, although not excessively loud.
I'll be recording in WAV, which should I go with - 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 etc up to 96/24?
Record levels manual or auto? If manual, do I want the limiter on or off?
Mic sensitivity high or low?
Low Cut on or off?
If anyone can provide some answers to those questions, and/or has experience with an LS-10, I'd love to hear about it.
And yes, I did search, the topics I found were helpful, but didnt answer my remaining questions
Thanks
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I've never used an LS-10, but I can tell you this:
1) I would definitely record in 24 bit. I would just go with 24/44.1 or 24/48 because I don't see how you'd hear a difference with the internal mics if you recorded at 24/96. I prefer 24/44.1 for its slightly better conversion to CD format, but many here prefer 24/48. The reason for 24 bit it that it allows you to boost levels much more noiselessly in post.
2) Never ever use auto level when recording music. Use manual and set your levels conservatively, peaking around -12 to at most -6. That gives you margin for error for sudden peaks and you can boost noiselessly in post when recording in 24 bit.
3) Seldom use a low cut filter on any recorder. Reduce the bass in post if necessary. One time people do say it helps is with wind noise though, so maybe someone who has used this recorder's internal mics outdoors can chime in. I would leave it off unless someone has used it in the wind and says it helps. Once you filter something out of your original recording, you can't get it back.
4) With 24 bit and levels peaking where I recommended, you don't really need a limiter. I don't know how good the LS-10's limiter is, but if you want you can turn it on as a safety valve. Just try to set levels conservatively enough that it is probably not going to kick in.
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I've got a few little gig's coming up soon, I own a Olympus LS-10 and figure I'll give it a shot at recording concerts. I've heard mixed reviews about its concert performance, some people swear by it, others love it but EQ the final result, some people hate it. Now I don't want this to turn into a "internal mics are shit, use externals" etc thread, I already intend to purchase some externals before an important show later this year. What I'm hoping for is some advice on settings to use.
The first gig I'll be taping is outdoors on a beach, so the mic's will be windscreened. The second gig is inside a small venue. Both are rock gigs, although not excessively loud.
I'll be recording in WAV, which should I go with - 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 etc up to 96/24?
Record levels manual or auto? If manual, do I want the limiter on or off?
Mic sensitivity high or low?
Low Cut on or off?
If anyone can provide some answers to those questions, and/or has experience with an LS-10, I'd love to hear about it.
And yes, I did search, the topics I found were helpful, but didnt answer my remaining questions
Thanks
Out of all the recorders I have ever owned this one has the WORST internal mics I have ever heard.. The external mic jack is useless because there is a high pass filter that can not be switched off. My recommendation is to get something like an R09HR and sell the LS10 like I did to someone that just wants to record voice. There is a huge spike in this recorders internal mics in the high frequency area that makes them most unpleasing to listen too... I am not just saying this because I make mics.. I am saying this because I owned one and HATED IT. the internal preamp also sucks... So yeah you can use it but the results will be less then perfect.
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I've never used an LS-10, but I can tell you this:
1) I would definitely record in 24 bit. I would just go with 24/44.1 or 24/48 because I don't see how you'd hear a difference with the internal mics if you recorded at 24/96. I prefer 24/44.1 for its slightly better conversion to CD format, but many here prefer 24/48. The reason for 24 bit it that it allows you to boost levels much more noiselessly in post.
2) Never ever use auto level when recording music. Use manual and set your levels conservatively, peaking around -12 to at most -6. That gives you margin for error for sudden peaks and you can boost noiselessly in post when recording in 24 bit.
3) Seldom use a low cut filter on any recorder. Reduce the bass in post if necessary. One time people do say it helps is with wind noise though, so maybe someone who has used this recorder's internal mics outdoors can chime in. I would leave it off unless someone has used it in the wind and says it helps. Once you filter something out of your original recording, you can't get it back.
4) With 24 bit and levels peaking where I recommended, you don't really need a limiter. I don't know how good the LS-10's limiter is, but if you want you can turn it on as a safety valve. Just try to set levels conservatively enough that it is probably not going to kick in.
Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.
I've got a few little gig's coming up soon, I own a Olympus LS-10 and figure I'll give it a shot at recording concerts. I've heard mixed reviews about its concert performance, some people swear by it, others love it but EQ the final result, some people hate it. Now I don't want this to turn into a "internal mics are shit, use externals" etc thread, I already intend to purchase some externals before an important show later this year. What I'm hoping for is some advice on settings to use.
The first gig I'll be taping is outdoors on a beach, so the mic's will be windscreened. The second gig is inside a small venue. Both are rock gigs, although not excessively loud.
I'll be recording in WAV, which should I go with - 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 etc up to 96/24?
Record levels manual or auto? If manual, do I want the limiter on or off?
Mic sensitivity high or low?
Low Cut on or off?
If anyone can provide some answers to those questions, and/or has experience with an LS-10, I'd love to hear about it.
And yes, I did search, the topics I found were helpful, but didnt answer my remaining questions
Thanks
Out of all the recorders I have ever owned this one has the WORST internal mics I have ever heard.. The external mic jack is useless because there is a high pass filter that can not be switched off. My recommendation is to get something like an R09HR and sell the LS10 like I did to someone that just wants to record voice. There is a huge spike in this recorders internal mics in the high frequency area that makes them most unpleasing to listen too... I am not just saying this because I make mics.. I am saying this because I owned one and HATED IT. the internal preamp also sucks... So yeah you can use it but the results will be less then perfect.
Trust me to pick a dud machine. sigh ::)
Thanks though
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I've never used an LS-10, but I can tell you this:
1) I would definitely record in 24 bit. I would just go with 24/44.1 or 24/48 because I don't see how you'd hear a difference with the internal mics if you recorded at 24/96. I prefer 24/44.1 for its slightly better conversion to CD format, but many here prefer 24/48. The reason for 24 bit it that it allows you to boost levels much more noiselessly in post.
2) Never ever use auto level when recording music. Use manual and set your levels conservatively, peaking around -12 to at most -6. That gives you margin for error for sudden peaks and you can boost noiselessly in post when recording in 24 bit.
3) Seldom use a low cut filter on any recorder. Reduce the bass in post if necessary. One time people do say it helps is with wind noise though, so maybe someone who has used this recorder's internal mics outdoors can chime in. I would leave it off unless someone has used it in the wind and says it helps. Once you filter something out of your original recording, you can't get it back.
4) With 24 bit and levels peaking where I recommended, you don't really need a limiter. I don't know how good the LS-10's limiter is, but if you want you can turn it on as a safety valve. Just try to set levels conservatively enough that it is probably not going to kick in.
Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.
I've got a few little gig's coming up soon, I own a Olympus LS-10 and figure I'll give it a shot at recording concerts. I've heard mixed reviews about its concert performance, some people swear by it, others love it but EQ the final result, some people hate it. Now I don't want this to turn into a "internal mics are shit, use externals" etc thread, I already intend to purchase some externals before an important show later this year. What I'm hoping for is some advice on settings to use.
The first gig I'll be taping is outdoors on a beach, so the mic's will be windscreened. The second gig is inside a small venue. Both are rock gigs, although not excessively loud.
I'll be recording in WAV, which should I go with - 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 etc up to 96/24?
Record levels manual or auto? If manual, do I want the limiter on or off?
Mic sensitivity high or low?
Low Cut on or off?
If anyone can provide some answers to those questions, and/or has experience with an LS-10, I'd love to hear about it.
And yes, I did search, the topics I found were helpful, but didnt answer my remaining questions
Thanks
Out of all the recorders I have ever owned this one has the WORST internal mics I have ever heard.. The external mic jack is useless because there is a high pass filter that can not be switched off. My recommendation is to get something like an R09HR and sell the LS10 like I did to someone that just wants to record voice. There is a huge spike in this recorders internal mics in the high frequency area that makes them most unpleasing to listen too... I am not just saying this because I make mics.. I am saying this because I owned one and HATED IT. the internal preamp also sucks... So yeah you can use it but the results will be less then perfect.
Trust me to pick a dud machine. sigh ::)
Thanks though
Hey dont feel bad I got my unit when they were $400 and sold it a month later for $250...
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While I do not doubt Chris's experience with the deck, I have made some fine recordings with it. I have done most every possibility of line in with a preamp, with internal mics, with mic in, and maybe it is the loud rock n roll I have done, but I also did some chamber music and 2 weddings and was very pleased. So no need to be discouraged, just go out and have fun.
I use 24/48 for the flexibility and my car will play 24/48 on CD or DVD so I can listen right away, but I eventually dither to 16/44.1.
I never use any filters or limiters, but that is more personal preference.
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While I don't have any experience with this recorder, I agree with dallman and say to just go for it. If you end up with something listenable then great. The sure way to end up with nothing, is to not tape at all.
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Always use the internal/external mic with preamp setting in "low" or 20 db setting to avoid overloading distortion.
The highpass filter effect (not a defeatable feature) working only to reduce frequencies above 85 cycles is a good thing for most rock/pop live venues, but less desireable for acoustic stuff. The preamp in this model is one of the lower noise recorders available in this size. See graph below:
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35PIPvs3SX.gif)
Tech review of this model on my site at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/ls10revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/ls10revw.htm)
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While I do not doubt Chris's experience with the deck, I have made some fine recordings with it. I have done most every possibility of line in with a preamp, with internal mics, with mic in, and maybe it is the loud rock n roll I have done, but I also did some chamber music and 2 weddings and was very pleased. So no need to be discouraged, just go out and have fun.
I use 24/48 for the flexibility and my car will play 24/48 on CD or DVD so I can listen right away, but I eventually dither to 16/44.1.
I never use any filters or limiters, but that is more personal preference.
Thanks for giving me some hope haha.
How were the internal mic's? Do you have a sample uploaded anywhere that I can listen to?
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If I run some CA-14's with a batt box through line in, the bass rolloff should be a little helpful in small venues right?
If not, I can fix it in post..
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If I run some CA-14's with a batt box through line in, the bass rolloff should be a little helpful in small venues right?
If not, I can fix it in post..
According to Chris, if omnis maybe in some instances, if cards definitely not (cards in the same line of mics as omnis do not have as much bass).
Even with omni's unless the sound is incredibly bass loaded, most of prefer to do any roll off in post. Not everyone feels this way, but I think it's safest not to use roll off when recording unless you really know what you're doing.
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If I run some CA-14's with a batt box through line in, the bass rolloff should be a little helpful in small venues right?
If not, I can fix it in post..
According to Chris, if omnis maybe in some instances, if cards definitely not (cards in the same line of mics as omnis do not have as much bass).
Even with omni's unless the sound is incredibly bass loaded, most of prefer to do any roll off in post. Not everyone feels this way, but I think it's safest not to use roll off when recording unless you really know what you're doing.
The roll off is built into the LS-10 line in sadly, I could go mic in but then I can't use the battery box without risking overloading
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The roll off is built into the LS-10 line in sadly, I could go mic in but then I can't use the battery box without risking overloading
I don't have an LS-10, but unless I'm reading it wrong, guysonic's report on the LS-10 says that the roll off in built into the mic in, not the line in.
http://www.sonicstudios.com/ls10revw.htm
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The roll off is built into the LS-10 line in sadly, I could go mic in but then I can't use the battery box without risking overloading
I don't have an LS-10, but unless I'm reading it wrong, guysonic's report on the LS-10 says that the roll off in built into the mic in, not the line in.
http://www.sonicstudios.com/ls10revw.htm
My mistake, thanks for pointing that out.
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Here is a copy of what's on my site's LS-10 technical review about the inputs:
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/LS10_inputs.JPG)
Mic input on this model is not very capable of handling high signals from larger size externally powered 12-48 volt mics recording rock/pop stuff, but is fine with my mics, and may be OK with most small capsule mics operating from their own 9 volt battery modules.
UPDATE: Now both Sony D50 and newest M10 power my Dimensional Stereo-Surround (DSSM) mics.
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While I do not doubt Chris's experience with the deck, I have made some fine recordings with it. I have done most every possibility of line in with a preamp, with internal mics, with mic in, and maybe it is the loud rock n roll I have done, but I also did some chamber music and 2 weddings and was very pleased. So no need to be discouraged, just go out and have fun.
I use 24/48 for the flexibility and my car will play 24/48 on CD or DVD so I can listen right away, but I eventually dither to 16/44.1.
I never use any filters or limiters, but that is more personal preference.
Thanks for giving me some hope haha.
How were the internal mic's? Do you have a sample uploaded anywhere that I can listen to?
I do not think I uploaded anythging with internal mics. I also usually do not upload low pro shows, but I'll rumage through my hard drive and see what I come up with. I do think you will be pleasantly surprised at what you can do with the deck. The external mics I have used do sound better, (At 853 and Church CA 11), but the internals have done a great job when needed. I left it on a table during a wedding to record piano music, and later plugged in external mics for a jazz combo, and the music was so appreciated, it made it onto the wedding DVD.
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Not sure why everyone is so anti LS-10, but I have made some really good sounding recordings with it. I have heard worse sounding stuff/shows recorded with "better" recorders and high-end mics, so I assume after all it's all up to you how your recording sounds. you either can tape or not, you just need some decent mics and a recorder and a bit of knowledge on what to do with the shit and your tape will sound fine. after all, all you do is tape, and audience recordings will never sound like pro-mixed sound desk captures, so fuck it. dont give a shit on what all those haters say about the LS-10, it is just a recorder and has little impact on the final outcome.
I agree on the built-ins though, unfortunately they really suck when it comes to recording a live show.
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dont give a shit on what all those haters say about the LS-10, it is just a recorder and has little impact on the final outcome.
I agree on the built-ins though, unfortunately they really suck when it comes to recording a live show.
There's really no hating going on in this thread-just criticism of the internal mics, which you agree with. Some have criticised the mic in due to the undefeatable roll off, but there's no reason recordings by the LS-10 shouldn't sound as good as those made by recorders more popular here when you go line in with a battery box (or preamp for quiet stuff) or even mic in when you are in a venue where the roll off could be beneficial.
However for someone who is trying to decide which recorder to buy, I would strongly advise against the LS-10 because it costs too much compared to the M10 & HR10 which have features I like better.
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Does anyone know how much power the PIP on the Mic In for this unit puts out?
Got some CA-1's I want to run at a gig soon, but won't have a BB in time.
Figure the built in roll off wont be much of a problem, since the CA-1 range is 100 - 20 anyway, plus I can just correct the roll off with EQ matching the graphic in post.
EDIT: Found it. 2.9v. Not ideal at all haha
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Does anyone know how much power the PIP on the Mic In for this unit puts out?
Got some CA-1's I want to run at a gig soon, but won't have a BB in time.
Figure the built in roll off wont be much of a problem, since the CA-1 range is 100 - 20 anyway, plus I can just correct the roll off with EQ matching the graphic in post.
EDIT: Found it. 2.9v. Not ideal at all haha
Better to start with a flat recorder then one you have to "correct" after the fact.
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Does anyone know how much power the PIP on the Mic In for this unit puts out?
Got some CA-1's I want to run at a gig soon, but won't have a BB in time.
Figure the built in roll off wont be much of a problem, since the CA-1 range is 100 - 20 anyway, plus I can just correct the roll off with EQ matching the graphic in post.
EDIT: Found it. 2.9v. Not ideal at all haha
Better to start with a flat recorder then one you have to "correct" after the fact.
I realise, but sadly the LS-10 is all I have for the moment. What do you think that max spl at 3v will be for CA-1's?
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Does anyone know how much power the PIP on the Mic In for this unit puts out?
Got some CA-1's I want to run at a gig soon, but won't have a BB in time.
Figure the built in roll off wont be much of a problem, since the CA-1 range is 100 - 20 anyway, plus I can just correct the roll off with EQ matching the graphic in post.
EDIT: Found it. 2.9v. Not ideal at all haha
Better to start with a flat recorder then one you have to "correct" after the fact.
I realise, but sadly the LS-10 is all I have for the moment. What do you think that max spl at 3v will be for CA-1's?
I recommend a full 9 v for the ca-1. Plug in power is never a good idea for any of the mics I make simply because they have all been designed around 9 volts. I will do a test of voltage vs distortion in the next month or so.
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Completed my first recording last night, using my LS-10 and some CA-1's with a BB.
Im over the moon with the results. Incredible (minus a few drunk bitches talking)
Thanks for all the help!
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I took a listen to the sample - quite nice! The chatter wasn't as bad as I was expecting.
Were you running mic-in or line-in?
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I think I ran Mic-In from memory. Wasn't get a strong enough signal on the line in.