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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Kush on August 02, 2010, 07:18:44 PM
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I'm sick and tired of my AT8410a shockmounts. I've gone through two pairs in the past few years buying a single each time one has failed. Now I've got one which either needs some spot welding or to be thrown away and the other needs to be restrung. When they aren't broken, these things rock. They seem to provide a ton of protection when the stand is bumped. I'm running the AKG blueline series and looking for suggestions on alternate shockmounts. Ideally, they need to be the same size or smaller than AT8410a's and provide enough protection when the mic stand is accidently bumped. Another plus would be to mount to the AKG KM235/1 Stereo Microphone Bar without adapters.
So, suggestions and recommendations welcomed. . .
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http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SP20/?gclid=CLvQ4bX6m6MCFRhuswodvV1amw
i use those for akg391, nak300wcp4s, akg460. seem to sag a bit on the shure vert a27m as they are horizontal mount there.if there is bumping noise i have not heard it,yet. have a screwing tighten them up if need be
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JB Weld works well for the most common problem with the 8410s.
Also, At usually supplies replacement bands at no charge.
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I'd try these http://www.pro-audio-warehouse.com/ssm5.html (http://www.pro-audio-warehouse.com/ssm5.html) and not F with the AT mount. I had a pair of the AT8410a and it took very few shows for one to fail...while setting up. If you'd like to pay for a proven shock mount, the Shure donuts are nice IMO.
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Are there any shocks smaller than the 8410a's (suitable for KM140s) which use the spring mechanism to insert the mics? I've got the Busman shocks and I really don't like how much effort it takes to squeeze the mics into the mount. The felt liner is pretty much destroyed from the friction of inserting and removing the mics.
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http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/162967-REG/AKG_2183_Z_00010_H_30_Universal_Shock.html (pricey)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/86370-REG/Gitzo_G11510N.html (still pricey)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554998-REG/Rycote_041106_INV_6_InVision_Indoor_Microphone.html (heard good things)
good luck
a
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I'd try these http://www.pro-audio-warehouse.com/ssm5.html
that's what I use for my bluelines, or ones idenitical to those (SP stock mounts come to mind, Busman has something similiar etc)
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Kush I can re string them for you...cost 2$ is one missing a screw......?
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I strongly recommend the Rycote "InVision" shock mounts. They are considerably more effective than any other types I've ever seen or used. They also have proper cable clamps, without which no shock mount is effective.
There are models for complete microphones (small or large diameter) and also for capsules on extension cables, such as those by Schoeps and Neumann.
www.rycote.com/products/
(Disclosure: In the U.S., Rycote is distributed by Redding Audio, and the people who run that company are friends of mine.)
--best regards
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Another vote for the Shure Donuts. Work with my 480's and with my NOLAbars. No problems no hassles and work just as well as the overpriced rycote gear.
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Kush I can re string them for you...cost 2$
You mentioned something about that, elastic hair ties?
is one missing a screw......?
No screw missing, it needs to be spot welded or I need to use that JB weld (epoxy) stuff on it for a temporary fix.
Another vote for the Shure Donuts. Work with my 480's and with my NOLAbars.
Your AKG 480's are 21mm but the AKG 39x's are only 19mm. I don't think they will be snug enough?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SP20/?gclid=CLvQ4bX6m6MCFRhuswodvV1amw
i use those for akg391
The price is right on these but it says for mics 20mm in diameter. How is the fit? Snug? Do you use gaffers tape on the bodies? Or add a felt lining on the inside of these? I don't want to put my mics up 10+ feet in the air to have some drunken idiot (maybe even myself) bump the stand and have my mics come out of the shockmounts and fall to the floor.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554998-REG/Rycote_041106_INV_6_InVision_Indoor_Microphone.html
These look very cool and I've seen them being used by other tapers. However, they won't screw onto my AKG swivel t-bar without needing adapters to fit the 5/8"-27 threading? Edit: found 5/8" > 3/8" adapters for $5 a piece.
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http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554998-REG/Rycote_041106_INV_6_InVision_Indoor_Microphone.html (heard good things)
I strongly recommend the Rycote "InVision" shock mounts. They are considerably more effective than any other types I've ever seen or used. They also have proper cable clamps, without which no shock mount is effective.
(Disclosure: In the U.S., Rycote is distributed by Redding Audio, and the people who run that company are friends of mine.)
I however have no connection to anyone selling them, and I'll also vouch for the Rycote mounts as well. I use mine in a kwonbar-style setup and I've been happy with the results compared to noise with the shure donuts (my second place vote) or the standard elastic mounts. Not much difference, but there is some.
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The Nady SSM-5 are too large for the KM184s and KM140s.
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I have heard the INV-6 is suitable for both full-bodied mics (as pictured in the B&H photo) as well as for running smaller capsule mics on extension cables such as the DPA 402x and the Schoeps. Is the INV-6 the right model for that? Would be very useful to me to have mounts that could do both.
I strongly recommend the Rycote "InVision" shock mounts. They are considerably more effective than any other types I've ever seen or used. They also have proper cable clamps, without which no shock mount is effective.
There are models for complete microphones (small or large diameter) and also for capsules on extension cables, such as those by Schoeps and Neumann.
www.rycote.com/products/
(Disclosure: In the U.S., Rycote is distributed by Redding Audio, and the people who run that company are friends of mine.)
--best regards
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Quote
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554998-REG/Rycote_041106_INV_6_InVision_Indoor_Microphone.html
These look very cool and I've seen them being used by other tapers. However, they won't screw onto my AKG swivel t-bar without needing adapters to fit the 5/8"-27 threading? Edit: found 5/8" > 3/8" adapters for $5 a pie[/color]ce.
it is a good idea to have hand full of those adopters in your bag anyway... if money is tight, put an ISO in yardsale for those adapters and somebody will probably donate to the cause for shipping cost...plus i will look, but i am pretty sure i've seen them for 2 or 3 bucks online before...i'll check it out
a
found: http://www.avalive.com/Bogen-Manfrotto/MIBA/66945/productDetail.php?utm_source=googleBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=MIBA
http://www.macmall.com/p/3681156?dpno=7055898&source=mwbfroogle
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Kush,
I have two pairs of the rycote inv6, your welcome to try a pair out next time we record together(Rhythm devils @ the Sherman?). Great mounts! LMK
Also they come with the adapter to go onto either 3/8 or 5/8 male threads.
jamie
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Quote
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554998-REG/Rycote_041106_INV_6_InVision_Indoor_Microphone.html
These look very cool and I've seen them being used by other tapers. However, they won't screw onto my AKG swivel t-bar without needing adapters to fit the 5/8"-27 threading? Edit: found 5/8" > 3/8" adapters for $5 a pie[/color]ce.
it is a good idea to have hand full of those adopters in your bag anyway... if money is tight, put an ISO in yardsale for those adapters and somebody will probably donate to the cause for shipping cost...plus i will look, but i am pretty sure i've seen them for 2 or 3 bucks online before...i'll check it out
a
found: http://www.avalive.com/Bogen-Manfrotto/MIBA/66945/productDetail.php?utm_source=googleBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=MIBA
http://www.macmall.com/p/3681156?dpno=7055898&source=mwbfroogle
I just bought a 5-pack of these for less than $10 (shipped) from England, and I had them within 4 or 5 days at most.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370292317925
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Also they come with the adapter to go onto either 3/8 or 5/8 male threads.
That's a really good point that I'd forgotten about since I don't use the adaptors; the Rycotes come with the needed 3/8 > 5/8 adaptor. Don't buy the adaptors in advance.
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I just bought a 5-pack of these for less than $10 (shipped) from England, and I had them within 4 or 5 days at most.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370292317925
how'd you do that (sorry getting off topic)? That ebay link says they cost "Approximately US $7.93" each, then add a bit for shipping
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I just bought a 5-pack of these for less than $10 (shipped) from England, and I had them within 4 or 5 days at most.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370292317925
how'd you do that (sorry getting off topic)? That ebay link says they cost "Approximately US $7.93" each, then add a bit for shipping
Each = pack of 5 and he's charging roughly $2 USD. So 5 adapters for $9.93
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^ ok, guess I can't read. I see that now. :P
Awesome price indeed! But yes, order your new mounts first because you may not need the adapters if they come with the new mounts
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^ ok, guess I can't read. I see that now. :P
Awesome price indeed! But yes, order your new mounts first because you may not need the adapters if they come with the new mounts
Total cost in USD came to $9.37.
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This guy sells very nicely made AT-8410A-like shock mounts for dirt cheap, around $15 each including shipping from Hong Kong. I have a bunch of them, and they're 95% the quality of ATs for 1/3 the price: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300442374700#ht_3937wt_912
He also has 5/8" to 3/8" adaptors: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290447635136&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
Totally reliable seller. Shipping from HK is hassle-free (though it may take a few weeks), and he seems happy to accept any reasonable offer (just don't forget to work shipping into the equation). Has other mounts and hardware as well.
Dave
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The thing about adapters like the 5/8 - 3/8, you want to have spares... Sometimes I'm putting mics on ceilings, sometimes on stands, sometimes other. I can remember trying to hit the road for a distant show, and not being able to find those damn adapters. Turns out I'd left them in some shock mounts I seldom use - I'd used them for some odd mounting config...
It'd be interesting to do a comp of the rycotes to better understand how their far more refined design impacts performance in the real world.. Both in high spl situations and otherwise.
I'm not often on floors that have serious vibration issues, but I'd expect that situation would require better isolation.
I like the hm-30 superlux (avlex?) mounts a lot... they're compact and only $9 each. They seem to work very well for me. If I was in a difficult vibe situation, I'd opt for elastic mounts.
(http://www.avlex.com/images/07.19.04_avlex/HM30.JPG)
http://www.superlux.us/smalldiaphragm.html
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Technically the best shockmounts are the Rycote "Lyre" InVisions and USM range.
Next is the Cinela Osix and the Shure donut (for SDCs).
I now use the Rycote mounts on everything.
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These are my next mounts... as soon as I start taping again ::)
http://www.avantelectronics.com/SSM.htm $30/ea but all metal construction and very low pro.
these are WAY too heavy for what they are and the rubber band suspensions are a bitch to get your mic fed through....+ they scratch yr mics if yr not carefull...
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..and i must add that a bag full of those damn 5/8" <> 3/8" adapters are a must in the gear pile..ive got so much manfrotto gear at some shows that it looks like im about to film a porno...
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These are my next mounts... as soon as I start taping again ::)
http://www.avantelectronics.com/SSM.htm $30/ea but all metal construction and very low pro.
these are WAY too heavy for what they are and the rubber band suspensions are a bitch to get your mic fed through....+ they scratch yr mics if yr not carefull...
I agree - there are much better choices.
Those Rycotes John mentioned look pretty good. It's worth reading up on them and looking in the catalog. You can buy the plastic suspension units for not too much, and probably mount them yourself on 3/4 x 1/8" aluminum (aluminium, to John) strips. Drill and tap a 3/8" hole, and Bob's your uncle.
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These are my next mounts... as soon as I start taping again ::)
http://www.avantelectronics.com/SSM.htm $30/ea but all metal construction and very low pro.
these are WAY too heavy for what they are and the rubber band suspensions are a bitch to get your mic fed through....+ they scratch yr mics if yr not carefull...
These mounts are heavy at a half pound each but they are inexpensive and totally bomb proof. I've used them for years and never scratched a mic with them. They provided the same isolation as similar sized shocks ( schoeps a20 and joe meek) when I did an informal test.
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I have preferred the Avant mounts for years. The weight is the price you pay for a bombproof shock. Scratches mics? I could see if the mic is rubbing against the metal construction, but the o-rings seem to work just fine for me. The picture is deceiving and I can't believe they show them with three rings on each side. I only run with two and the mics go in with no resistance. The site now mentions that they ship with only two rings per side now. They also come with a 5 year warranty.
Personally, I was tired of plastic mounts with cheap plastic (or metal) joints that would fall apart simply from normal use. I have a pair of Superluxes, which I find to be fine shocks and have held up over the years, but they are cracked in the joints and I don't trust them with any weight. One gets used for an 'active' kwon-type setup, though.
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I'm going over a friend's place this weekend to test out the Rycote inv7.
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ive got so much manfrotto gear at some shows that it looks like im about to film a porno...
;D
Same here. like 95% of my setup gear is bogen based because I could standardize it without having to use anything except a rapid adaptor to finagle a connection. Actually, while I have some 5/8-27 adaptors, since I've tried to standardize all of my threads to 3/8-16 and get rid of anything else, I'm more likely to have adaptors down to 1/4-20 for my better half's camera gear (and thus justify more bogen accessories...)
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It's worth looking at THIS PDF (http://www.ibs.org.uk/files/09_Keeping_Microphones_Quiet.pdf) article on suspensions published in "LineUp" last year.
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Thanks John. A very good read. It addresses nicely what I'd been thinking about lately, i.e. the desirability of having a suspension system 'tuned' with regard to the mass of the particular microphone, rather than trusting in random configurations of rubber bands and hoping for the best.
Without wanting to give the Rycote company a coniption fit (or put you on the spot), what do you think of my idea of using the Rycote 'lyres' in a DIY mount? (I don't see any way to DIY the lyre units effectively, or I'd probably be ungracious enough to do so! And they're not unreasonably priced, at least by Rycote standards: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629619-REG/Rycote_042212_042212_19_25mm_Lyre_Upgrade.html#features)
Dave
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Thanks John. A very good read. It addresses nicely what I'd been thinking about lately, i.e. the desirability of having a suspension system 'tuned' with regard to the mass of the particular microphone, rather than trusting in random configurations of rubber bands and hoping for the best.
Without wanting to give the Rycote company a coniption fit (or put you on the spot), what do you think of my idea of using the Rycote 'lyres' in a DIY mount? (I don't see any way to DIY the lyre units effectively, or I'd probably be ungracious enough to do so! And they're not unreasonably priced, at least by Rycote standards: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629619-REG/Rycote_042212_042212_19_25mm_Lyre_Upgrade.html#features)
Dave
That upgrade kit is about the same price as a USM mount or two InVision mounts - I think the USM is $120 in the USA and the InVisions about half that.
So - going the DIY route will cause you lots of hassle and not much saving really.
The upgrade lyres are for the basket windshield and have little holes in the bottom to screw to the suspension bar. So, in theory, you could use them to make your own SDC mounts. But with all the time needed and the other bits ou will have to get, I don't really think you would save much at all.
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I did a DIY mount via a gooseneck, two plastic coat hangers, a couple OSP stereo bars and some tape and string. Actually works quite well considering. But the gooseneck gets a bit unruly when transporting from the parking lot to the venue. If you don't keep the orientation to the ground, it flexes, the T-bars on strings slide to one side of the coat hangers and all hell breaks loose. Plus it's pretty heavy. But it does work. Cost wise it adds up as I was using 4x OSP bars ($10-ish each). String ($6-ish). Gooseneck ($25-ish if you buy a new one at radio shack). AT8410's, Inv6's, or those Avant ones look better IMO. About the only advantage of the DIY is that the gooseneck let me flex just it and compensate for unlevel ground, or a source that wasn't at eye level. Without ever having to touch the mics orientation to the stereo bar.
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Thanks John. A very good read. It addresses nicely what I'd been thinking about lately, i.e. the desirability of having a suspension system 'tuned' with regard to the mass of the particular microphone, rather than trusting in random configurations of rubber bands and hoping for the best.
Without wanting to give the Rycote company a coniption fit (or put you on the spot), what do you think of my idea of using the Rycote 'lyres' in a DIY mount? (I don't see any way to DIY the lyre units effectively, or I'd probably be ungracious enough to do so! And they're not unreasonably priced, at least by Rycote standards: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629619-REG/Rycote_042212_042212_19_25mm_Lyre_Upgrade.html#features)
Dave
That upgrade kit is about the same price as a USM mount or two InVision mounts - I think the USM is $120 in the USA and the InVisions about half that.
So - going the DIY route will cause you lots of hassle and not much saving really.
The upgrade lyres are for the basket windshield and have little holes in the bottom to screw to the suspension bar. So, in theory, you could use them to make your own SDC mounts. But with all the time needed and the other bits ou will have to get, I don't really think you would save much at all.
Appreciate the input John. It could however save quite a bit if you needed 4 or 5 mounts. For the price of the pack of 10 universal (19-25mm) 'lyres' and a $5 strip of aluminum, plus a couple of hours work, you would have 5 shock mounts. (Sorry, I was born w/ the DIY gene!)
Dave
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I did a DIY mount via a gooseneck, two plastic coat hangers, a couple OSP stereo bars and some tape and string. Actually works quite well considering. But the gooseneck gets a bit unruly when transporting from the parking lot to the venue. If you don't keep the orientation to the ground, it flexes, the T-bars on strings slide to one side of the coat hangers and all hell breaks loose. Plus it's pretty heavy. But it does work. Cost wise it adds up as I was using 4x OSP bars ($10-ish each). String ($6-ish). Gooseneck ($25-ish if you buy a new one at radio shack). AT8410's, Inv6's, or those Avant ones look better IMO. About the only advantage of the DIY is that the gooseneck let me flex just it and compensate for unlevel ground, or a source that wasn't at eye level. Without ever having to touch the mics orientation to the stereo bar.
@shadow: I know, I've made and bought all kinds of elastic-type shock mounts too, but this Rycote technical paper John pointed out has uprooted a lot of my assumptions about the relative effectiveness of shock mounts.
In particular, regarding the readiness of the mount to deflect in the appropriate axes relative to the plane of the capsule's diaphragm. In fact, my previous favorite, the AT8410-type of mount is, according to this theory, doing a horrible job, as it allows very little deflection where it is most required, and most deflection where less is required. So I'm actually rethinking all of this (and I had just ordered three more of the AT8410-style mounts!)
(edit) On second thought, the AT-style mounts may actually do a good job in the case of the capsules being mounted at right angles to the mic body, as in the case of AKG C460/CK6x's w/ A61 swivels(!)
Dave
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I use the Busman mounts similar to the schoeps A20's very small light weicght and smaller than the joe meeks that I also own.
in a thread some where that they were actually NADY's
here:
http://www.nadypro.com/pd_ssm5.cfm (http://www.nadypro.com/pd_ssm5.cfm)
however you might check with busman and see what he would sell a pair for - I bet he could cut a better deal.
--Ian
http://www.busmanaudio.com/ (http://www.busmanaudio.com/)
or PM him here
but I think he may be at the KBOO Pickathon this weekend... :)
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I use plastic "mic clips" (with no shock) most of the time with my AKG480s. Same with my Earthworks, and Naks. I've probably run that hundreds of times and I've never heard anything on a tape from someone kicking the stand, and I'm sure it's happened. Some mics are sensitive to that kind of vibration (my 414's are, and AT853's seem to be), but many are not. The main reason I use the mic clips was because (a) I have them, and (b) the AT8410's don't fit in my bag when it's full of other gear. A t-bar with clips on it is much smaller.
Before you spend a bunch of money on new shock mounts, maybe try cheap plastic clips.
One of the links previously mentioned as the Windtech mounts which have a rubber strap that looks like a car muffler hanger. Those work good, are pretty cheap, and you might find those in a typical music store downtown (the kind that sells trumpets and guitars to school kids). Take your mics to the store and see if they fit OK. I used them for a while, the only downside was the Naks I had at the time were a rather tight fit, but since 390's are smaller, it might be perfect.
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I use plastic "mic clips" (with no shock) most of the time with my AKG480s. Same with my Earthworks, and Naks. I've probably run that hundreds of times and I've never heard anything on a tape from someone kicking the stand, and I'm sure it's happened. Some mics are sensitive to that kind of vibration (my 414's are, and AT853's seem to be), but many are not. The main reason I use the mic clips was because (a) I have them, and (b) the AT8410's don't fit in my bag when it's full of other gear. A t-bar with clips on it is much smaller.
Before you spend a bunch of money on new shock mounts, maybe try cheap plastic clips.
One of the links previously mentioned as the Windtech mounts which have a rubber strap that looks like a car muffler hanger. Those work good, are pretty cheap, and you might find those in a typical music store downtown (the kind that sells trumpets and guitars to school kids). Take your mics to the store and see if they fit OK. I used them for a while, the only downside was the Naks I had at the time were a rather tight fit, but since 390's are smaller, it might be perfect.
Same here. I use mic clips/holders with my AKG 460's 95% of the time. The ones from the manufacturer that came with the mics.
The other 5% I use the windtechs shocks because I forgot the mic clips.
The ones that Ziko linked you to are great and have metal threads on them.
I used them on my 39x series when I ran them. Snug.
EDIT:They are the ones I used in my avitar with cmc64's.
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Some mics have internal shockmounts of sorts. For those type of mics you probably don't need a shock mount.
My Avenson STO-2's are not that sensitive to all things handling noise. But with the aforementioned redneck shockmount I did notice a difference. There's a certain clarity that you otherwise don't get. And if you have to move the mic stand while recording it's noticeable. It also keeps the cable when it slaps the stand from wind and other things from transmitting up the pole. And other hands on the mic stand to brace against the wind or other concerns. It basically helps to keep all those unwanted noises out.
So if you're like me and put a pair of headphones on a headphone clamp on the mic stand and pick up and set them down often. And pick up and set down the field recorder that's resting on the legs of the tripod based mic stand. Maybe even put a second headphone clamp and your camcorder on a tabletop clamp on the headphone clamp, all of that action doesn't make the mix with shock mounts in use. Plastic mic clips even very rubbery ones like those that come with my STO-2's don't do that for you.
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So if you're like me and put a pair of headphones on a headphone clamp on the mic stand and pick up and set them down often. And pick up and set down the field recorder that's resting on the legs of the tripod based mic stand. Maybe even put a second headphone clamp and your camcorder on a tabletop clamp on the headphone clamp, all of that action doesn't make the mix with shock mounts in use. Plastic mic clips even very rubbery ones like those that come with my STO-2's don't do that for you.
Dang! Hey don't forget the hook for the Coleman lamp, and one for the Igloo icebox, too! ;D
Sounds like you need a shock mount for your shock mount!
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Well, when the event lasts 3+ hours and/or you need to exist in the space of stadium seating... Putting it all on one ONE stand saves a lot of headache. Plus the camcorder on the mic stand allows that extra foot plus of height to get above all those people passing in front of your camcorder every 7.3 seconds. Without that, you're holding the camcorder extra high so they can safely pass. They don't, and the second you lower back to comfortable, that's the second the decide to pass in front of you. Put it on the mic stand, raise up that flag pole and enjoy the show. Granted that I probably need a more substantial mic stand than I'm currently using. I've got to keep all of the segments at < 50% extension to minimize sway in the wind, or rackety bleachers.
But then again, if they made one of these that clamped onto a mic stand, I might partake. It's all about the gadgets.
(http://craziestgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/trailer-hitch-toilet-seat.jpg)
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What's that, a hillbilly shock mount? ;D
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i used the windtech "rubberband" mounts when i had 39x
worked great and fit the tbar without issue
they are like $8 each and you want the "20's" as in 20mm
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+T for the Minnie license ;D plate, I know guys up here who prolly own one of those.
that looks suspiciously like a DIY version of the bumperdumper http://www.bumperdumper.com/bumper2.htm
Are you serious when you say those Avantone mounts are 8oz? Surely you jest. I might rethink them.
8oz may be on the conservative side
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It's been a while, but I just DIY'd a couple shockmounts and actually kind of like them. Beats a couple of plastic coat hangers electrical taped to a gooseneck. Inspired in part by a youtube vid.
(http://home.earthlink.net/~shadow_7/DIY_shockmount5.gif)