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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: nicegrin on August 18, 2010, 10:20:05 PM
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Hi all!
This question is kind of directed to mr. illconditioned but ofcourse anyone is free to give their input! :)
What is your opinion about countryman b3 vs. Nevaton MCE400? I have the nevatons and love them but would there be any reasons to pick up the b3s aswell? Only problem I have with the nevatons is the matching (I have to adjust in post most of the times!)... Curious to hear how you would describe their differences and their pros and cons!
Thanks!
Nicegrin!
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OK, I prefer Nevaton sound. It has slightly better sound, and quite a bit lower noise floor. However, as you mentioned, matching was a problem for me. Mine were pretty good in level, but the spectral response was quite different. They were only equal at 1kHz!
I also like b3 because they are quite a bit smaller, more robust, and can run directly off plug in power.
Now, that said, IMO both mics completely blow away any other omni mic I've heard. Much nicer than even DPA4060. I don't mind admitting this, even after I spent $800 to get a new matched pair of DPA. I thought the DPA would be the end of my search, but that is not the case.
Richard
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I also like b3 because they are quite a bit smaller, more robust, and can run directly off plug in power.
Richard
Does this mean your B3s are terminated with a mini stereo plug?
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I also like b3 because they are quite a bit smaller, more robust, and can run directly off plug in power.
Richard
Does this mean your B3s are terminated with a mini stereo plug?
Purchase unterminated "pigtail" B3's. Approx $150 each from B&H. Regular sensitivity version is fine.
Wires: shield, red, black. Shields to ground (sleeve) on miniplug. Red wires to tip (left), ring (right). Black wires each go to 2.2k resistor to ground. There is some debate as to whether a source resistor is needed. (The alternative is to short black wires directly to ground.) But Countryman will not supply details on internal wiring of capsule. I run the 2.2k resistor to be sure to prevent overload. That's it. Just plug this into Edirol R09 or Sony PCM and you're good to go!
As far as I'm concerned this setup will blow away anything out there, including DPA406x.
Richard
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That´s sweet! Diffucult to find anything more compact than that and still good quality! :)
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I wonder where they get the capsules?
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I wonder where they get the capsules?
I would not be surprised if they are manufactured in house. If anyone finds out otherwise, I'd love to know.
They are stainless steel diaphragm, and stainless case, 5mm diameter by 3mm high (approx).
The smaller B6 capsules are 2.5mm diameter, 3mm high (approx).
Richard
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how long are the stock cables on the B3s, Richard? thanks.
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how long are the stock cables on the B3s, Richard? thanks.
I think it is something like 4' or just a bit under. Enough to run from your head to your pocket...
Richard
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thanks
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I think this is the correct link for pigtail version but which one for strong vocals or for general speaking?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/514059-REG/Countryman_B3W5FF05BNC_B3_Omnidirectional_Lavalier_Microphone.html#specifications (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/514059-REG/Countryman_B3W5FF05BNC_B3_Omnidirectional_Lavalier_Microphone.html#specifications)
Countryman B3 Omnidirectional Lavalier Microphone (Black)
* Pigtail (Unterminated) for
* Headroom for Strong Vocals
* Black
* B&H # COB3W5BNC * Mfr #B3W5FF05BNC
or this one?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/294567-REG/Countryman_B3W4FF05BNC_B3_Omnidirectional_Lavalier_Microphone.html#specifications (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/294567-REG/Countryman_B3W4FF05BNC_B3_Omnidirectional_Lavalier_Microphone.html#specifications)
Countryman B3 Omnidirectional Lavalier Microphone (Black)
* Pigtail (Unterminated) 2-wire f/
* Headroom for General Speaking
* Black
* B&H # COB3W4BNC * Mfr # B3W4FF05BNC
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^^^ The second one, regular sensitivity, B3W4FF05BNC. The first one is -10dB.
You should be able to get the for exactly $150. Try fullcompass.com. Hmm. Just checked. All places seem to be up to $170 now. I wonder if the price just went up. I was just looking a day or two ago. Anyway, still worth the money.
Richard
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^^^ The second one, regular sensitivity, B3W4FF05BNC. The first one is -10dB.
You should be able to get the for exactly $150. Try fullcompass.com. Hmm. Just checked. All places seem to be up to $170 now. I wonder if the price just went up. I was just looking a day or two ago. Anyway, still worth the money.
Richard
thanx Richard
--Ian
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Oh yeah, I put up some more clips, including B3 ones, http://Soundmann.com.
Richard
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Richard:
How many wires come off the B3's?
How did they fit any electronics in that tiny head? There must be an FET, capacitor and source resistor at a minimum.
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Richard:
How many wires come off the B3's?
How did they fit any electronics in that tiny head? There must be an FET, capacitor and source resistor at a minimum.
The b3 capsule is metal, 5mm diameter x 3mm high, and has a tapered, sealed (epoxy) back that goes to the cable. I have not disassembled this.
There are three wires: shield, red, black. This cable goes to the capsule + epoxy.
Richard
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Richard,
do we know voltage ranges for the B3?
will they run on 3v to 9v
or is 9v too much?
thanx in advance
--Ian
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Richard,
do we know voltage ranges for the B3?
will they run on 3v to 9v
or is 9v too much?
thanx in advance
--Ian
maximum 9v I would say.
The lower voltage is not clear. It also depends where you measure - across the mic alone, or the battery voltage (which includes both the mic and any resistors in the circuit).
I cannot answer any more questions now. You just have to try it and see.
Richard
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Richard,
do we know voltage ranges for the B3?
will they run on 3v to 9v
or is 9v too much?
thanx in advance
--Ian
maximum 9v I would say.
The lower voltage is not clear. It also depends where you measure - across the mic alone, or the battery voltage (which includes both the mic and any resistors in the circuit).
I cannot answer any more questions now. You just have to try it and see.
Richard
thanx
I was just wondering about potential use with the little box and the aux in of
# +9V plug-in power
# +9V power for "three-wire" lapel-style microphones (balanced or unbalanced configuration)
maybe Jon could answer that..
--Ian
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^^ What are you recording with? If you get the Sony D50 or M10, you don't need a preamp at all. Less boxes = less to worry about. If you need preamp, wire it for "standard 9v", that is, two wires, 10k load resistor. I would still wire a 2k resistor between black and ground on the mics, but Countryman shows just shorting the black wire to ground, so that should work too.
Give it a try and if you do, post your results back here...
Richard
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^^^ contemplating downsizing my FR2-LE to an M-10 with a littlebox to power and pre my Milab VM44's
just figured a better preamp would be better than the internal on the sony's
--Ian
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I spoke with Countryman about connecting a B6 to an M10. They said it will work but the Sony plug-in-power, 3V @ 4.7 kilohms, is lower than optimal. They thought this would put 1.1v across the microphone instead of the 1.6v they consider optimal. They speculated the impact would be a reduction in dynamic range from 120dB to 105-110dB.
For wiring the plug, the advice was "White to tip and shield to sleeve" and that's it. They can build it themselves. One should order a model number ending in "D2", which is not a stock part at any dealer so will require a special order.
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^^^ The second one, regular sensitivity, B3W4FF05BNC. The first one is -10dB.
You should be able to get the for exactly $150. Try fullcompass.com. Hmm. Just checked. All places seem to be up to $170 now. I wonder if the price just went up. I was just looking a day or two ago. Anyway, still worth the money.
Richard
Richard,
It's been awhile.
I still have not gotten any B3's but and thinking again bouth them.
I saw this on the countryman site
The most powerful vocals require the least sensitive mic (W7) with the highest overload sound level.
- I believe it may pertain only to the B6's but wonder if you could 'splain?
from here:http://www.countryman.com/display.asp?catid=4&pid=71 (http://www.countryman.com/display.asp?catid=4&pid=71)
want to get some and get some resistor inline for my - m 10
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I now have both of these mics. So far I like the Nevatons more, but I suspect that running the B3's directly into my M10 is a problem (lack of power to the B3's).
Ran the B3's for Ryan Adams (Acoustic guitar/piano through PA...not very loud)...was ok. No distortion.
Ran the B3's for Springsteen. Not as good. I think it was just to loud for the 3V's the M10 puts out. Certainly not as good as when I ran for Springsteen with the Nevatons earlier in the year. Similar sound levels from where I was sitting.
Need to get a battery box or CA-Ugly for the B3's to say how they compare for sure.
One thing I have noticed is that Nevatons are more directional than the B3's. The B3's seem to pick up people behind me more, and have a more spacious sound.
I have no shows on the horizon to use either of these. Might just have to play with them more at a local bands show. Maybe I can get a battery box and an M10 from another local taper and run both setups together.
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I´ve both mics as well and my experience is similar.
1. B3s distort more easily than nevatons so I try to avoid b3s for big monster stacks. (I have actually used both from the same spot with distortion in the b3s and none for the nevatons)
2. Nevatons are more directional and also abit more flavoured than b3s.
I have made excellent recordings with both mics but the nevatons is a safer bet due to the reasons above.
B3s + CA Ugly do sound excellent together!
Br
Nicegrin
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I also have both.
My B3's are red-mark type and can take incredibly high SPL's (a few inches from stack if desired). I think my Nevatons would distort before the red mark B3's.
Both have fantastic bass response, B3's slightly more bass (Nevaton's roll-off somewhat, but still need to roll-off in post mostly).
Nevatons slightly brighter of course.
B3's easier to stealth and more robust, but I (just) prefer the Nevaton sound, but not much in it though.
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I´ve both mics as well and my experience is similar.
1. B3s distort more easily than nevatons so I try to avoid b3s for big monster stacks. (I have actually used both from the same spot with distortion in the b3s and none for the nevatons)
2. Nevatons are more directional and also abit more flavoured than b3s.
I have made excellent recordings with both mics but the nevatons is a safer bet due to the reasons above.
B3s + CA Ugly do sound excellent together!
Br
Nicegrin
I haven't ran the Nevatons but I've run probably every other small omni mic under the sun over the past twenty years (including a DPA 4061). I've run the CA-Ugly Preamp and CA-Ugly Battery Box with the B3's and like what I hear - I find it's a very accurate recording of what the show sounds like. In fact, I like them _MORE_ than the 4061's. I've recorded close up and haven't had any issues with distortion but this was probably because I sent the mics to Chris Church and had him mod and terminate them for me. Also, I've always run the B3's with a preamp or battery box via line and not mic in, ever.
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I also like b3 because they are quite a bit smaller, more robust, and can run directly off plug in power.
Richard
Does this mean your B3s are terminated with a mini stereo plug?
Purchase unterminated "pigtail" B3's. Approx $150 each from B&H. Regular sensitivity version is fine.
Wires: shield, red, black. Shields to ground (sleeve) on miniplug. Red wires to tip (left), ring (right). Black wires each go to 2.2k resistor to ground. There is some debate as to whether a source resistor is needed. (The alternative is to short black wires directly to ground.) But Countryman will not supply details on internal wiring of capsule. I run the 2.2k resistor to be sure to prevent overload. That's it. Just plug this into Edirol R09 or Sony PCM and you're good to go!
As far as I'm concerned this setup will blow away anything out there, including DPA406x.
Richard
ALL (including Richard)
Ok so with the above set up and the 2.2k resistors It would seem one could just plug i these into the M-10 an duse the PIP to roll with them.
Generally I don't do any really loud shows, and usually I'd run my Milabs and LittleBox ... or multiple mics and the DR-680 -but for ease and super small set up I'd like to get the B3's.
I really don't want to make a set up that I'd need a battery box or a preamp for what I am thinking.
Richard, would be so kind to specify the exact resistor that you would recommend for this set up?
is the M-10 voltage too low? or how would that affect the sound? only for loud shows?
thanx to everyone...
--Ian
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I also like b3 because they are quite a bit smaller, more robust, and can run directly off plug in power.
Richard
Does this mean your B3s are terminated with a mini stereo plug?
Purchase unterminated "pigtail" B3's. Approx $150 each from B&H. Regular sensitivity version is fine.
Wires: shield, red, black. Shields to ground (sleeve) on miniplug. Red wires to tip (left), ring (right). Black wires each go to 2.2k resistor to ground. There is some debate as to whether a source resistor is needed. (The alternative is to short black wires directly to ground.) But Countryman will not supply details on internal wiring of capsule. I run the 2.2k resistor to be sure to prevent overload. That's it. Just plug this into Edirol R09 or Sony PCM and you're good to go!
As far as I'm concerned this setup will blow away anything out there, including DPA406x.
Richard
ALL (including Richard)
Ok so with the above set up and the 2.2k resistors It would seem one could just plug i these into the M-10 an duse the PIP to roll with them.
Generally I don't do any really loud shows, and usually I'd run my Milabs and LittleBox ... or multiple mics and the DR-680 -but for ease and super small set up I'd like to get the B3's.
I really don't want to make a set up that I'd need a battery box or a preamp for what I am thinking.
Richard, would be so kind to specify the exact resistor that you would recommend for this set up?
is the M-10 voltage too low? or how would that affect the sound? only for loud shows?
thanx to everyone...
--Ian
I can say that 2.2k is too low for these mics (as I run them). I can't say what kind of resistor was used because I didn't do the mod (and I'll leave it at that). I've had no distortion with them (even in really close/loud scenarios).
Even if you're not rolling on anything too loud, I'd still have a battery box in between them as insurance. M10 supplied voltage is just below was is deemed sufficient (according to Countryman) so I wouldn't suggest running mic in without anything in between.
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alright this may be a stupid question, so I'll ask it anyways...
with the B3
If one were to do a resistor mod say adding the 2.2k resistor.
where would one soldier it, meaning between which connections? I would potentially assume it would go on the + power or red wire.
but while I can solder I need to know where?
also which type of resistor would be best?
metal film?
any one have a good link?
I jut reread Richards quote :
If you need preamp, wire it for "standard 9v", that is, two wires, 10k load resistor. I would still wire a 2k resistor between black and ground on the mics, but Countryman shows just shorting the black wire to ground, so that should work too.
SO Likely I'll power via the Naiant tinyhead:http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159857.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159857.0)
Would I even need to throw a resitor between the black and ground wires? Voltage will be 6v.
or do I want the 10k resistor?
thanx for answerin ' my stupid questions...
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alright this may be a stupid question, so I'll ask it anyways...
with the B3
If one were to do a resistor mod say adding the 2.2k resistor.
where would one soldier it, meaning between which connections? I would potentially assume it would go on the + power or red wire.
but while I can solder I need to know where?
also which type of resistor would be best?
metal film?
any one have a good link?...
I think Ted did the cable 2.2k mod for bryonsos' b3 set inside the Mini Stereo connection for a CA Ugly...PM one of them
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alright this may be a stupid question, so I'll ask it anyways...
with the B3
If one were to do a resistor mod say adding the 2.2k resistor.
where would one soldier it, meaning between which connections? I would potentially assume it would go on the + power or red wire.
but while I can solder I need to know where?
also which type of resistor would be best?
metal film?
any one have a good link?...
I think Ted did the cable 2.2k mod for bryonsos' b3 set inside the Mini Stereo connection for a CA Ugly...PM one of them
Yes, tgakidis did the 2.2k mod for me. It's in the RA connector. I went with the 2.2 mod vs the 4.7 because I don't tape super loud metal etc. I've also ordered a Tinyhead which only gives 6V PIP, so I think 2.2 will be good. I'm not sure if the 4.7 would be the right call. I'll be reporting a comp vs CA-Ugly in the Tinyhead thread once I get it. Should be ~2 weeks or so.