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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Nick's Picks on August 20, 2010, 09:56:34 AM
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I'd like to hear some samples of various "on board" microphones from the hand held decks out here.
I've got plenty of R09 and R09hr recordings, but I'd love to hear some from the Sony D50 and Zoom decks.
anyone have some clips to share?
I have been lazy and using my r09 to record band rehearsals. nothing fancy, just find a decent spot...clamp, fire up the deck and forget about it.
There have been some recordings that are boomy, some that are very brassy ...which I blame on the mics.
but then again..., I get some amazing pulls out of a basement crammed with people and instruments.
For example, this was from a rehearsal I had yesterday with a band out of Southern Maine. Good song writing..., good guys. this might be the start of something fun.
in any case, i'm fucking STUNNED by the recording. Yes, its not even. can't hear the vocals, too much bass guitar, but that was all due o the room and proximity of amps vs. deck.
http://nickspicks.com/mp3/rehearsal/R09_000111.mp3
The bassist had an H4n he set up too (I clamped inches below him), so I'm looking forward to getting some of that to compare.
This single deck took the place of my normal room recording setup, which is the LSD2 in blumlein in the middle of the room > preamp > deck.
and I tells ya what...., the little edie held its own, and then some.
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No clips, but I like the song a lot. :)
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the recording is good. Did you do any post processing? where was the r-09 positioned in the room in relation to the band?
I have used an r-09 for recording my band's rehearsals, and although it sounds OK as a reference, it didn't seem to sound as good as your recording. I have since purchased an m10 and now use it to record our band, and all things considered I think it just sounds better. Not sure how to discribe it. Perhaps more separation and less smear/bleed between the mics. Maybe a bit less sterile than the r-09...warmer? FWIW, I only record our practices 16/44.1
as for the song...sounds good for a two chord-er. It would probably sound a bit better with more vox, and a bridge. :P Definately needs more B3 power chords!!
Have you tried to run a 4 channel mix into your bassist's H4n? Onboard mics for room ambiance, and a line out of your vocal mixer into the line in's on the H4n? I almost bought one for this purpose but decided on the M10 instead.
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Isn't that sort of comparison what the Wingfield Audio site provides? Maybe not the kind of material you were thinking of, though.
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Here is something I did with my D-50 at a show, Track 1 is the one to listen to. It is the D-50 3 feet back in center, X-Y, to a semi circle of the musicians. The encore on this link was about 8 feet back and had a lot of folks between the band and myself and not as good as track 1.
http://www.archive.org/details/PMW2010-02-13_SBD
It is not a quality full rig sound but I was pleasantly surprised. What I learned is I need to be close to the source, play with the mics, a nice plus, I have run the 120 degrees, 90 degrees and X-Y.
Tim
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Here's a song I recorded with my Sony M10, of the Lee Boys at a Bar...I was sitting at a table on the right side about 20 feet from the right PA and stage.
It was pretty loud. No EQ or anything was done to it. It has been converted to an MP3 so the wav does sound better.
But,I think it sounds pretty good. But there is a big difference when you use a good pre amp and mics and go line in.
But still, pretty good for cheap grab and go recorder.
Much better than nothing! ;) I've been trying to get more of my non taping music friends into taping.
I'm so glad we have these type recorders these days that you can just hit recorded and at least get something down.
Makes it a lot easier sell to guys that don't record and don't want to mess with it too much.
http://home.comcast.net/~mastermindmusic/leeboys-2010-01-17Atlanta.mp3
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^^^^
What recorder? You didn't list one.
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oopps...It was my Sony M10
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I have been lazy and using my r09 to record band rehearsals. nothing fancy, just find a decent spot...clamp, fire up the deck and forget about it.
There have been some recordings that are boomy, some that are very brassy ...which I blame on the mics.
but then again..., I get some amazing pulls out of a basement crammed with people and instruments.
For example, this was from a rehearsal I had yesterday with a band out of Southern Maine. Good song writing..., good guys. this might be the start of something fun.
in any case, i'm fucking STUNNED by the recording. Yes, its not even. can't hear the vocals, too much bass guitar, but that was all due o the room and proximity of amps vs. deck.
http://nickspicks.com/mp3/rehearsal/R09_000111.mp3
I don't get it. I tested the internal mics of my R-09 on a 2 piano band and it sounded horrible. I sent it out for the Micsketeer mod and never looked back. The modded unit sounds great. The unmodded R-09 sounds way worse to me than the R-09HR, M10, and the H4. I HATE the H4, but the internal mics can sound very good if you can avoid overloading them.
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The internal mics can be quite variable on these things. And what sounds good for voice/ambient may not sound good for music.
If anyone is serious about using built in mics, I suggest you replace with a pair of Sennheiser MKE40 capsules. I replaced the mics in a Tascam DR07 and love it. Really useful to have this rig in a pinch. At least for loud music. Another trick I did was take an old Audio Technica AT822 and rip the head off, put some 4.7k source resistors, run a short cord, and run plug in power on the Edirol R09. Even a Sony ECM907 will sound better than the internal mics on any rig that I've heard.
What I have noticed is the Sony M10 and D50 both have pretty low noise mics (around 20dBA). These are OK for recording ambient stuff around the house, but I don't like the sound for music.
Richard
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If anyone is serious about using built in mics, I suggest you replace with a pair of Sennheiser MKE40 capsules. I replaced the mics in a Tascam DR07 and love it. Really useful to have this rig in a pinch. At least for loud music.
For those (such as myself) not capable of doing that, get an old R-09 and send to Chris Church for the Micsketeer mod. It sounds great recording loud music (just like CA-11's > Battery Box > R-09) but without the ability to change the position of the mics. It will not overload at extremely loud shows.
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Interesting...
the setup of the room ..for those interested.
it was a rectangle, drum kit at the far end, one guitar on one of the long ends, the other on the opposite side.
bass and keyboard amp were on the opposing short side. the R09 was clamped on a mic stand behind / above the bass amp.
no processing was done. this is raw.
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No clips, but I'm using external mics in general. My field recorder doesn't even have onboard mics. One thing I've noticed is that if you get too close (< 3') to a reflective surface (brick wall) you can get more boomy-ness than you would otherwise get. And if you're using the mics on the recorder, you might want to find a way to shock mount the recorder to keep things that get translated through the rigging from getting recorded. It doesn't have to be much of a shock mount. A folded sock under the unit on a table and other cheap tricks can make a difference.
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not my recording, but this is with h4n internals
http://www.archive.org/details/rmb2010-08-06.flac
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I HATE the H4, but the internal mics can sound very good if you can avoid overloading them.
Some guy rolled an H4 at a jam I was at a while back and I was floored by how good it sounded on casual playback afterwards, honestly I was expecting crap. I'd guess it uses directionals as that was a rather boxy living room and I know the R-09 internals would have flopped.
BTW recordings made on any of these recorders that do use omni internals will sound significantly better with a simple makeshift baffle between the mics, Jecklin-disk / Crown-SASS style. Since quick and dirty is the name of the game for these applications, you can improvise one using most anything at hand: CD cases, a couple books, a piece of cardboard or whatever. Here's a fancy cardboard one for the old R-09, (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=70134.msg939775#msg939775) from back when it was the hot new flash recorder-
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70134.0;attach=50191;image)
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70134.0;attach=50192;image)
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70134.0;attach=50193;image)
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70134.0;attach=50196;image)
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Might. Beer goggles for more than oogling. As you can see I cut and arranged the cardboard to get the mic vents as flush to the surface as possible to limit reflections and leakage, but that may not be as important as just using something to increase the seperation somewhat.
Of course you could eat the bangers and mound up the mashed, Close Encounters style for pub gigs.
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Thought I'd add a comp to this thread with a Teac VR-10 and a Marantz PMD-661. The band is Gandalf Murphy and the Slambovian Circus of Dreams @ the Iron Horse in Northampton, MA. The VR-10 (omni) was set on top of the 661 (cardioid), in between the Marantz's mics. The files were peak normalized and are within 1dB RMS of each other. To me the Marantz sounds warmer/smoother and the Teac more transparent/lively. Hmm...now which source goes to the LMA?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/eg7o90rtle55xyg/Long%20Gone%20Lonesome%20Blues%20-%20VR-10.flac (http://www.mediafire.com/file/eg7o90rtle55xyg/Long%20Gone%20Lonesome%20Blues%20-%20VR-10.flac)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/wcdh8hewbjcnv4d/Long%20Gone%20Lonesome%20Blues%20-%20PMD-661.flac (http://www.mediafire.com/file/wcdh8hewbjcnv4d/Long%20Gone%20Lonesome%20Blues%20-%20PMD-661.flac)
-james