Taperssection.com

Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: scotianbill on September 27, 2010, 11:39:48 AM

Title: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: scotianbill on September 27, 2010, 11:39:48 AM
I've been making my own mics for years now and have come to the end of my supply of WM-61 capsules.
I could buy more, but would like to try a different brand...does anyone have DIY experience with WM-61 alternatives?
Are there types better than the WM-61 that are readily available? and not super expensive?
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: hi and lo on September 27, 2010, 01:08:01 PM
From the Panasonic line, it doesn't get much better than the 61's. Many years ago I would use the WM-60AY's which were lower sensitivity; I really liked these. Then there are the Panasonic capsules being used in Sonic Studio mics. I've never been able to pin down the exact model, but they're much older and much much lower sensitivity than the current 61's. I think Leonard purchased a batch of 5000 of these right before they were discontinued.

Aside from trying different capsules, have you experimented with the Linkwitz modification? This involves severing the existing trace between the capsule and the negative solder and creating a new trace between the capsule and positive solder pad. Accompanied by a reverse polarity battery box, this modification results in lower sensitivity and (supposedly) more linear response. This is the same modification used in Coresound Binaurals.

In the past, I have tried many non-panasonic capsules mostly purchased through digikey, but none have been close to the final quality of the modified 60ay/61a capsules.

Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: scotianbill on September 27, 2010, 06:14:15 PM
[quote author=. Accompanied by a reverse polarity battery box, this modification results in lower sensitivity and (supposedly) more linear response. This is the same modification used in Coresound Binaurals.

In the past, I have tried many non-panasonic capsules mostly purchased through digikey, but none have been close to the final quality of the modified 60ay/61a capsules.
[/quote]

Yes and no.
Ive mod'ed some -61s before but hadnt been overly impressed with the improvements.
I never tried them with a reversed bbox though.
With my remaining 2 capsules, I might make another bbox (reverse polarity) and try the mod once again!
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Church-Audio on September 28, 2010, 12:30:59 AM
Digikey only has about 14,000 in stock right now :)

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9925-ND

Check out the Primo 123 capsule. 20hz to 23khz

http://www.primomic.de/datenblatt.php?id=27&en=1

Chris
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Neilyboy on September 28, 2010, 08:29:08 AM
Digikey only has about 14,000 in stock right now :)

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9925-ND

Check out the Primo 123 capsule. 20hz to 23khz

http://www.primomic.de/datenblatt.php?id=27&en=1

Chris


That primo cap looks fun! I would love to snag a couple of them to play with. Any idea on where to pickup a small order or should I just contact their sales@primomic(dot)com addy?

Thanks Chris
Neil
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Church-Audio on September 28, 2010, 01:20:27 PM
Digikey only has about 14,000 in stock right now :)

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9925-ND

Check out the Primo 123 capsule. 20hz to 23khz

http://www.primomic.de/datenblatt.php?id=27&en=1

Chris


That primo cap looks fun! I would love to snag a couple of them to play with. Any idea on where to pickup a small order or should I just contact their sales@primomic(dot)com addy?

Thanks Chris
Neil

I have a couple thousand of them. I can send you a matched pair for $15.00 its more for my time then anything.

Chris
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Neilyboy on September 28, 2010, 02:50:56 PM
Digikey only has about 14,000 in stock right now :)

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9925-ND

Check out the Primo 123 capsule. 20hz to 23khz

http://www.primomic.de/datenblatt.php?id=27&en=1

Chris


That primo cap looks fun! I would love to snag a couple of them to play with. Any idea on where to pickup a small order or should I just contact their sales@primomic(dot)com addy?

Thanks Chris
Neil

I have a couple thousand of them. I can send you a matched pair for $15.00 its more for my time then anything.

Chris


Thanks for the offer Chris! I had wrote the sales dept and already had 10 caps on order before I saw your post. They should be here end of week! I am excited to try these out. This may force me to get into building a 'better' battery box vs my std diy resistor > cap box I am running now. I just ordered an M10 today to get back into the stealth game.

Neil
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: illconditioned on September 28, 2010, 07:23:48 PM
Anyone tried Primo EM158?  This is 6mm diameter, much lower noise.  I've tried some of these and they are amazing.  Not so good for music (at least compared to higher-end caps), but great for ambient and/or "secret agent" recordings...

Oh yeah, these are just 2-wire.  You can modify them, but it is a bit tricky to cut the traces...

  Richard
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: hi and lo on September 28, 2010, 09:11:14 PM
Awesome stuff here! Will definitely be trying a few pairs of both the 123 and the 158!

With the unique front grill I bet there is real potential for a few mechanical modifications as well as the linkwitz... And that's not even taking into account how good they probably sound stock :)
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: tom.lac on November 12, 2010, 05:51:54 AM
Hi,

Did someone try the uni-directional caps from primo? Can the EM-68's or EM-21s be interesting for music?
I don't really want to buy them do do something really stupid.

Tom
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on November 12, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
Primo EM-21 is the same as the CP-1 used in the Nakamchi CM-100 and CM-300. EM-23 is identical to the CP-2.

Roger
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: ArchivalAudio on November 13, 2010, 01:51:11 PM
Primo EM-21 is the same as the CP-1 used in the Nakamchi CM-100 and CM-300. EM-23 is identical to the CP-2.

Roger

ahhh
that's the Primo that is the same as the Nak caps!
thank you!
I remember hearing about this in the late 80's with some talk with tapers at Dead shows - and I have been wondering which Primo cap was the one
thank you!
--Ian
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: ArchivalAudio on November 13, 2010, 01:58:52 PM
oh after a quick search I found this:
http://www.primomic.com/products/EM21.htm (http://www.primomic.com/products/EM21.htm)
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: MJ on November 23, 2010, 03:01:02 AM
Check out the Primo 123 capsule. 20hz to 23khz

http://www.primomic.de/datenblatt.php?id=27&en=1

Chris

I ran a pair of EM123s once and pretty impressed with them.  They are cheap but very good mic

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L6SMNODW
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=STDY7KEI
EM-123>BB>TCD-D100

Koichi
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: wipeman on November 29, 2010, 04:45:47 AM
These are 10mm capsules with impressive spec.
Primo EM-172 (http://www.frogloggers.com/BT%20EM172.htm) - this site sells them in small quantities.

I heard these are the same capsules used in the Sony PCM-M10.



Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on November 29, 2010, 07:16:26 AM
Primo EM-173 is a variant of the EM-172. The EM-173 can handle higher SPL but nominal output is lower.

Roger
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: illconditioned on November 29, 2010, 12:52:23 PM
Primo EM-173 is a variant of the EM-172. The EM-173 can handle higher SPL but nominal output is lower.

Roger
What do you think of EM173?  I've got those.  I like the low noise, but I'm not sure about the sound.  Did you compare to the (smaller) EM158, or with WM61a?  I know I like Countryman B3 or others better, but I have not compared the Primo or Panasonic caps to each other.


  Richard

Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on November 29, 2010, 02:09:15 PM
Richard,

I have no personal experience of the EM-173. The frequency response seems a bit rolled-off at the highest freqencies. Low noise makes them popular among nature recordists.


Roger
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: Church-Audio on November 30, 2010, 02:06:22 PM
Primo EM-173 is a variant of the EM-172. The EM-173 can handle higher SPL but nominal output is lower.

Roger
What do you think of EM173?  I've got those.  I like the low noise, but I'm not sure about the sound.  Did you compare to the (smaller) EM158, or with WM61a?  I know I like Countryman B3 or others better, but I have not compared the Primo or Panasonic caps to each other.


  Richard
 

BTW this is the same capsule as used in the zoom recorder as far as I know.

Chris
Title: Re: DIY'er replacing WM-61 capsules - accepted replacement?
Post by: wipeman on December 01, 2010, 05:06:36 AM
Primo EM-173 is a variant of the EM-172. The EM-173 can handle higher SPL but nominal output is lower.

Roger
What do you think of EM173?  I've got those.  I like the low noise, but I'm not sure about the sound.  Did you compare to the (smaller) EM158, or with WM61a?  I know I like Countryman B3 or others better, but I have not compared the Primo or Panasonic caps to each other.


  Richard
 

BTW this is the same capsule as used in the zoom recorder as far as I know.

Chris

Are you sure? I thought the EM173 was an omni capsule. All the Zoom recorders I know of have cardioid mics.