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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: weroflu on October 03, 2010, 05:48:26 AM
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been reading the archives for a few weeks now and i would like some input on what are considered the best mini omnis.
the music i will be recording is live jazz, solo or groups, maybe some studio environments, but never outdoors or challenging rooms.
i didn't even know these mini mics could perform as well as traditional studio microphones until recently and i love the idea of small footprints and portability.
just curious about people's opinions on the high quality mini omnis out there. richard obviously thinks the b3 is top of the line.
i have a pair of ca-14 omnis on the way, but i'm wondering what are considered the top minis. i guess the other contenders would be dpa 406x, sennheiser mke-2, nevaton, dsm 6. i know there are some that are considered great for the money, but i'm interested in what are just considered great. i was just reading about the little blondies on GS and the clips sound great. i haven't found a whole lot of studio clips other than on guysonic's webpage. his mics do sound great to me in the studio setting.
i can't get an accurate comparison to other brands by listening to live recordings from pa's though.
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All the mics you mention are capable of delevering great results. I have heard lots of clips from all of them and I own both the Nevatons and the Sennheisers.
I´d say The Nevaton MCE 400 are pretty much the best "small" (this means disqualifying all capsules with a diameter of 19 mm or more to begin with!) mic I´ve heard. It needs atleast 12v to be powered though so you need some setup using phantom power (small solutions include directly into a MT2, using a PS-2 phantom unit or a Naiant tinybox), but IMHO it´s well worth such a set up!
DPAs can shine in some situations but I have also heard many boomy, edgy or unpleasant recordings with them and I often feel fatigued after listening too long to them. The Nevatons are smoother and more enjoying to me even if they might not be as detailed as the DPAs.
My vote goes for the Nevatons. Great mics!
/N
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For really mini I would look at the DPA and the Sennheiser MKE 2 - but the new Sennheiser MKE 1 is even smaller - also, the latest version of the MKE 1-N is paintable to really hide it away.
Though, personally, for quality, I prefer to use the MKH 8020 on remote cables (these are 19mm diameter mics and very high quality).
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re the dpa's:
i have read some confusing information about removing the boost grids. i would intend on using these with no high freq boost grid to get as flat a response as possible, but some people have mentioned that removing the grid may damage the mic, is this so? in casual listening clips the only thing i could definitely hear the high freq boost, not unpleasant, but i can do without it. someone somewhere described the mids as scooped, i can kinda sorta hear that, but i still found them to be euphonic.
quick question on the nevatons, about how much gain would need out of a preamp to use these? the tinybox provides up to 38db.
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In my opinion, asking which are the "best mini omnis" is like asking which is the best flavor of Ben and Jerry's or which is the best movie of 2010: it's extremely subjective and personal. There is no right answer, other than "the ones that sound best to you, in the conditions in which you typically record". As an example, one thing I have noticed (and this is completely anecdotal) is that people that prefer the Nevatons to the DPAs usually record loud rock while those that choose the DPAs over the Nevatons are often jazz/classical tapers...
re the dpa's:
i have read some confusing information about removing the boost grids. i would intend on using these with no high freq boost grid to get as flat a response as possible, but some people have mentioned that removing the grid may damage the mic, is this so? in casual listening clips the only thing i could definitely hear the high freq boost, not unpleasant, but i can do without it. someone somewhere described the mids as scooped, i can kinda sorta hear that, but i still found them to be euphonic.
quick question on the nevatons, about how much gain would need out of a preamp to use these? the tinybox provides up to 38db.
I have no idea about the potential consequences of using the DPAs without the grids, but it may be worth noting that some of the other listed mics also have high-end bumps, at least according to the manufacturer's specs (MCE400 and MKE2; they also have a bit of bass roll-off). Of the models with published frequency response graphs, the B3 is the only one that doesn't have the bump (with the flat cap)...
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Self noise tends to be higher on these tiny mics.
So if you are recording quiet jazz, especially piano or classical guitar at distance, etc, that could be a consideration. Depending on the instruments and distances, 38dB may not be enough gain.
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My Sonic Studios omni mics are very natural sounding (ruler flat 5-24,000 bandwidth) , no cord noise, and extended 5-40,000 cycle response, but have no coloration so recordings sound quite a bit 'duller' than 4060 and most other way more popular omni choices that hype the mid-high for getting that really colorful sizzle sound on everything.
Of course one could always add any desired amount of 'sizzle hype' afterwards in post, but not so possible to remove recorded mic-sizzle from a recording.
Suggest listening to some of the hundreds of sample raw music recordings to see if a non-hyped-up mic fits your personal taste in live music sound, and maybe add some of that 'sizzle to taste' in post edit to any of these found at: www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm
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i think yours and the countryman b3 are the flattest i've heard.
i can easily hear the nevaton sizzle. they remind me of km184's.
the countrymans (countrymen?) have the added advantage of the different boost caps and the noise floor is fairly low.
i am still waiting for a self noise spec on the dsm 6.
my plan is to play with the ca-14's for a bit. then maybe spring for dsm or countryman and the new tinybox II when it comes out.
the little blondie clips i heard were really excellent too. i like the idea of these too because the capsule is custom machined, so it's a unique flavor.
i wish i knew about these tiny mics sooner.
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What do you guys think about the Church Audio CAFS?
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re the dpa's:
i have read some confusing information about removing the boost grids. i would intend on using these with no high freq boost grid to get as flat a response as possible, but some people have mentioned that removing the grid may damage the mic, is this so? in casual listening clips the only thing i could definitely hear the high freq boost, not unpleasant, but i can do without it. someone somewhere described the mids as scooped, i can kinda sorta hear that, but i still found them to be euphonic.
quick question on the nevatons, about how much gain would need out of a preamp to use these? the tinybox provides up to 38db.
You can remove the grids but you need to realize that part of the way the mic picks up sound is built around having a grid of some kind in front of the capsule. I would suggest getting the 'FLAT' grids. The capsules are very fragile and need you can get debris into the capsule if you dont have a grid on it.
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I own the 4061s and like them, though for jazz I think the 4060 is a better choice as it has much lower self-noise. I would not use the DPAs without grids. Not designed to be used that way.
FWIW, although I have never owned them, I've heard many outstanding recordings with the Sonics. I have personally not liked the rock recordings I've heard with Countryman B3s, but I don't know how that translates to jazz recordings. The Nevatons pique my curiosity, though I consider having to use phantom and XLRs a downside if you are trying to record discretely (My DPAs are "chopped" and can be used with a coresound 9v battery box or another 9v source).
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What do you guys think about the Church Audio CAFS?
I've used them at a number of loudish rock gigs now and got fabulous results. They are really, really tiny and to my ears the results sound just as good as the results I've got with my Church CA11 cards. So I'd certainly recommend them to anyone looking for something really small and with a smallish budget.
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I own the 4061s and like them, though for jazz I think the 4060 is a better choice as it has much lower self-noise. I would not use the DPAs without grids. Not designed to be used that way.
Agreed. If you are going DPA you should definitely get the 4060's unless you can get a much better price on 4061's.
Lower self noise and you need 10 dB or so less gain from your preamp. Plus, despite what some people think, they are good for recording loud stuff as well. You'd have to be stack taping a heavy metal band to have a chance of the SPL being too high for them to handle.
I had both and sold the 4061's-the 4060's are more versatile.
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I've recorded quiet acoustic material to loud rock with the 4060s. Never a problem.
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I've recorded quiet acoustic material to loud rock with the 4060s. Never a problem.
The 4060s can handle high SPL but are very sensitive so the output in high SPL situations can be too hot for some preamps / recorders. I've run into that problem. Not often, but a few times with the original R-09.