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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: jamroom on October 21, 2010, 01:44:09 PM

Title: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: jamroom on October 21, 2010, 01:44:09 PM
As per title, with emphasis on low-pro, is there any potential upgrades to my current CA11 and CA14 card mics? No, not at all interested in omnis, not with the gobshites that go to the gigs I do. :-)
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: Belexes on October 21, 2010, 01:51:51 PM
Some people low-pro with DPA and Schoeps mics.  I do find the results pleasing, but maybe not worth the considerable cost investment unless you'd open tape with those mics as well.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: page on October 21, 2010, 01:54:41 PM
As per title, with emphasis on low-pro, is there any potential upgrades to my current CA11 and CA14 card mics? No, not at all interested in omnis, not with the gobshites that go to the gigs I do. :-)

Some people low-pro with DPA and Schoeps mics.  I do find the results pleasing, but maybe not worth the considerable cost investment unless you'd open tape with those mics as well.

Beat me to it.
Phantom power based remote/active solutions depending on your flavor prefences would be the only alternative I'd consider. The CA-14s currently have top spot on the 9v side IMHO. Laws of deminishing returns start to really set in at that point.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: jamroom on October 21, 2010, 04:07:07 PM
Some people low-pro with DPA and Schoeps mics.  I do find the results pleasing, but maybe not worth the considerable cost investment unless you'd open tape with those mics as well.

DPA and Schoeps cards? There are a huge number of confusing model numbers. Anything in particular?
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: jefflester on October 21, 2010, 04:34:08 PM
DPA and Schoeps cards? There are a huge number of confusing model numbers. Anything in particular?
DPA4021/4022/4023 (+power supply/preamp)
Schoeps CCM4 (+power supply/preamp)
Schoeps MK4 + actives + various powering/preamp solutions
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: page on October 21, 2010, 04:43:33 PM
DPA and Schoeps cards? There are a huge number of confusing model numbers. Anything in particular?
DPA4021/4022/4023 (+power supply/preamp)
Schoeps CCM4 (+power supply/preamp)
Schoeps MK4 + actives + various powering/preamp solutions

Also remote/actives:

beyer ck9X0 series
mbhos (only 1 set of bodies, but the caps all do AFAIK)
milab vm44-link
neumann km100 series (the ak40 caps are the cardioids)
akg 300 blueline series

The AKGs are the cheapest at around $500 used. All of these will require more space at the cap area then your CA-14s, so keep that in mind for incognito work.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: nicegrin on October 21, 2010, 06:47:13 PM
Page and Jefflester pretty much gave you the whole list...

Only solutions not mentioned so far that I can think of...

*Sennheiser MK8040/8050s (IMO too big for low pro but some people think differently)
*AKG CK9x caps -> "activestyle" cables -> preamp (cheapest upgrade)
*Röde NT6 "actives" (cheapest "active style" solution I know of)

There you have it...

For omnis it´s easier, just get a pair of Nevatons MCE400 and you´ll never look for another set of low pro omnis again!  ;D

/N
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: OOK on October 21, 2010, 10:14:46 PM
Audix micro series....
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: page on October 21, 2010, 10:25:43 PM
Audix micro series....

*Röde NT6 "actives" (cheapest "active style" solution I know of)

Completely spaced on both of these brands. Thanks.

*AKG CK9x caps -> "activestyle" cables -> preamp (cheapest upgrade)

Thats not the blueline series?
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: Javier Cinakowski on October 21, 2010, 11:05:27 PM
Now that phantom powered XLR(balanced) field recorders are tiny (i.e. PMD661),many low pro, fantastic sounding options are available...
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: ArchivalAudio on October 22, 2010, 01:35:36 AM
Milab VM-44-Links!
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: nicegrin on October 22, 2010, 06:25:08 AM
Yeah the Milabs seem sweet. Hope they get their hypercaps out soon!

Milabs vm44,
dpa 402x and
scheops mk4s

are the only upgrades I´d consider from where I am right now...

My recomendations in general for card upgrades from the usual suspects of 9v mics goes as follows:


~$400

Audix 1280 + church actives + pre (9v though!)


~$600

AKG ck9x + actives + pre (works with 9v though!)

~$1200

Beyerdynamic CK9x0 + pre/phantom (11-52 V)

~$1500

Milab vm44 links + pre/phantom (11-52 v)

~ + $2500

Mk4+cmrs+tinybox
DPA 402x + 48 v phantom/pre

Just my 2 cents!

/N.















Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 22, 2010, 08:13:24 AM
You might also want to wait until after the AES meeting in a few weeks, I understand a number of new things are coming there.

Jeff
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: Belexes on October 22, 2010, 08:34:28 AM
I don't understand the love for Audix. I have listened to a bunch of samples on Archive and am not liking the bass response.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: jamroom on October 22, 2010, 08:49:37 AM
Many thanks to you all for the replies so far. I will do a bit of investigation and mull it over for a bit.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: nicegrin on October 22, 2010, 08:58:50 AM
@jamroom:

Go to http://www.archive.org/ and Just type the mentioned mics and you will find plenty of samples to make up your mind about what sound you prefer...

/N
 

Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: su6oxone on October 22, 2010, 09:26:28 AM
DPA and Schoeps cards? There are a huge number of confusing model numbers. Anything in particular?

This is a great way to go as they sound great, are small enough to be able to easily stealth (the main hindrance is needing a bulkier source for phantom) but are great for open taping as well because of the Kwon/NOLA bars and their small size.  The CCM L series are nice because you can remove the cable and store it in the Schoep plastic vials for humidity-free storage.  Also, the L series uses a non-active cable that you can order with a custom length up to 16ft in length, for a reasonable price around $200 (much less than the KC active cables).  When I got my CCM4s I ordered an extra set of 4ft cables to go with the standard 16ft cables so that I could easily switch between the two for open or stealthing. 

CCM4 (card) and CCM41 (supercards) are probably the best choices if you're just planning for one set, or the CCM5 (card/omni) if you like omnis.  Of course, there are also CCM4v and CCM41v varieties that have a high frequency bump that some people prefer. 
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: jamroom on October 22, 2010, 12:40:19 PM
@jamroom:

Go to http://www.archive.org/ and Just type the mentioned mics and you will find plenty of samples to make up your mind about what sound you prefer...

/N

Only problem is they will be open recordings, rather than low-pro.  ;D

Thanks for the advice anyway, N. Much appreciated. I need to decide upon budget for mics and pre and then probably go for used, in order to get a better bang for my buck.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: page on October 22, 2010, 03:47:12 PM
@jamroom:

Go to http://www.archive.org/ and Just type the mentioned mics and you will find plenty of samples to make up your mind about what sound you prefer...

/N

Only problem is they will be open recordings, rather than low-pro.  ;D

While true, if you are comparing two mics against each other, it doesn't really matter if they are low-profile or not. A is bright then B, B has more detail then C. That sort of thing is what you are looking at.

It's sort of nice when you can find gigs that have multiple tapers in the same vacinity as each other so you can start to eliminate room factors from sound signature. Baring that, it's an uphill battle to compare gear IMHO. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: it-goes-to-eleven on October 22, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
While true, if you are comparing two mics against each other, it doesn't really matter if they are low-profile or not. A is bright then B, B has more detail then C. That sort of thing is what you are looking at.

Oh, but it does.  Running low-pro impacts the config.
Title: Re: Low-Pro Cardoid Mics - Is There An Upgrade Path?
Post by: page on October 22, 2010, 04:14:16 PM
While true, if you are comparing two mics against each other, it doesn't really matter if they are low-profile or not. A is bright then B, B has more detail then C. That sort of thing is what you are looking at.

Oh, but it does.  Running low-pro impacts the config.

Correct in that it affects things, but to tell two different sonic signatures apart I don't think it's as critical. If that's not what you're interested in, then I think you're down to trial and error.