Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: pnoman on November 14, 2010, 01:35:47 PM
-
As this is my first post on this board, it qualifies me as a NewBe! As such, I know I have little if any credibility here, and this is probably a little unusual for a first post, so please bear with me.
And now to the topic: I recently bought a Roland R-05 to replace the minidisc recorder that I had been using up until some years ago when it was stolen. I had first settled for a Zoom H1, but because it suffered from the battery drain problem (it used 47 mA when switched off), I ended up replacing it with the Roland R-05. I was maybe a little sceptical at first, not seeing too many tests of the R-05, so I decided to test the noise levels etc a bit while still being able to return it.
The conclusion: It is very good, and looks almost identical (in terms of noise performance and likely also dynamic range) to the equivalent Sony PCM-M10, at least when comparing the specs found over at http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm. It is better (noise-wise) than the Edirol R-09HR, and will offer either lower noise or more dynamic range at the same recording levels. I was being asked to consider also the L-09HR by the friendly salesman, but I am really happy I didn't spend the extra money (here it is 60% more expensive, as is also the Sony). For most of us in Europe, I guess the R-05 is the best value for money in its price class. In the US, maybe the Sony is?
One concern I've seen raised here is the input sensitivity. It is spec'ed at -7 dBu, but is in fact in reality more like -0.6 dBu at default gain for the LineIN. So maybe not that different from the L-09HR in practice (if that is according to spec then...) in terms of input levels?
If anyone cares for numbers, the EIN is around -122 dB(A) in the highest gain settings, and in the range between -30dBu to +20dBu (roughly) it is capable of recording with a dynamic range of more than 90 dB. It thus requires a pretty quiet microphone before the noise of the preamp starts to matter.
The built-in microphones are well matched to the preamps too, and offer a good, quiet recording as well.
I know some say EIN is not relevant for typical taper usage. I don't fully agree to that even if I understand the logic, but the relevant part of looking at EIN for taper use is that it helps to establish the dynamic range. A low EIN means a quiet recording -- which is certainly true for this unit (up to 98 dB(A) dynamic range).
There are probably more details on this than anyone cares about on my page here: http://www.b4net.dk/?page_id=111 -- including specific noise data and other observations.
Comments are obviously more than welcome!
-- Per.
-
Per,
Great post. Welcome to TS.com.
-
For most of us in Europe, I guess the R-05 is the best value for money in its price class. In the US, maybe the Sony is?
Hej Per!
You're right, I came to the same conclusion when I noticed the price gap on the EU market. Based on early reports, I've been recommending R-05 to users in the UK and Germany.
I liked those diagrams on your site. What software/soundcard/method have you used for your tests?
Also, thanks for the troubleshooting of the H1. Perhaps you'd like to add your findings to the existing thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133657.msg1811600#msg1811600
-
I liked those diagrams on your site. What software/soundcard/method have you used for your tests?
Thanks :)
The measurements were done using a combination of tools and methods, and were kind of developed along the way. I made more measurements and tests than documented, to be sure I didn't make any obvious errors.
To stimulate the input of the recorder, I used a pair of outputs from my 8-channel Presonus Firepod firewire external “soundcard”. The stimulus was generated using Wavelab on my Windows PC.
To ensure I had the right levels (for the sensitivity analysis), I verified the signals with a Tektronix TDS340A scope and also double-checked with a small handheld Digital Multimeter, just to be sure...
The actual analysis has been done with a combination of Audacity (and Wavelab) using the Wave Stats plugin plus OpenOffice Calc (an opensource Excel-like spreadsheet). For the FFT analysis I have used Octave (a very good opensource MatLab clone) directly on the wave files.
All graphs were prepared using GnuPlot, automated by some small shell scripts. Most of this running on Ubuntu 10.10.
I added this to the page also -- quite relevant question!
Also, thanks for the troubleshooting of the H1. Perhaps you'd like to add your findings to the existing thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133657.msg1811600#msg1811600
Yep, will do now!
-- Per.
-
Just came across this thread. Excellent indepth analysis, Per. Thanks for posting and the link to your site!
-
Just came across this thread. Excellent indepth analysis, Per. Thanks for posting and the link to your site!
Thanks -- glad if my overly "nerdy genes" can be helpful for others :P
-- Per.
-
I have searched around the forum and on Per's detailed review, but cannot work out what "unity gain" is on the R05. I will be using a CA9100 pre to control the volume, so need to know what to set the line input volume to. Any thoughts?
-
The safe bet is to simply set the input gain on the recorder to the middle of its range for the line input, then adjust gain on the CA9100 as needed for good levels. If your signal is too hot with the 9100 gain turned all the way down, then reduce the input gain on the recorder until you have enough control range using the 9100.
-
Good idea. Thanks for the input.
-
I have both the R-05 and the 9100. I start the 05's input at 40 and crank the 9100 all the way up. Unless the 9100's clip light comes on (rare), I adjust the 05's input up or down to bring the levels to a proper point...
-
Thanks for the in depth post, my R-09HR has sadly died, I was thinking of a straight replacement but now I'm inclined to opt for the R-05, are there any downsides to the R-05 over the R-09?
I notice the line in socket is at the top of the R-05 recorder, I'm not too sure if this is an improvement especially as it was my line in socket that was an issue with the R-09HR?
David.
-
Thanks for the in depth post, my R-09HR has sadly died, I was thinking of a straight replacement but now I'm inclined to opt for the R-05, are there any downsides to the R-05 over the R-09?
I notice the line in socket is at the top of the R-05 recorder, I'm not too sure if this is an improvement especially as it was my line in socket that was an issue with the R-09HR?
David.
Sorry to highjack the thread, but you should DEF consider a Sony PCM-M10. Its IMHO the best handheld out there ;)
-
Bean, my guess is that the previous poster is EU based.
For those on a tight budget without friends travelling from the US, the R-05 is 90 EUR cheaper than the M10 in Europe:
http://geizhals.eu/?cat=djrecorder&sort=p
-
Given the comments on various recorders about the hold button and controls not afftected by it, I thought I would give my tuppence worth.
As always, I select hold after hitting record, due to the recorder mostly being located in my pocket. My new R05 did not come with a cover, so I'm using it "au naturel". Got home last night after a gig and noticed that two of the three switches on the back had been moved across towards "on" (limiter and low cut). I also noticed whilst testing, that any operation of the buttons on the front (whilst in record mode) bring up the screen warning about the unit being in record mode, but not selection of the three switches on the back. From a brief listen to the recording, it doesn't sound like either selection has affected it, though not sure whether they have to be fully over to "on" before they work properly. Bit of a design flaw?
Anyhow, a bit of speed tape over said switches will soon sort that problem out.
-
I had the same "problem" last week. Other than that, it's a great recorder!
-
^^^ Certainly is! Though it's the same size as the R09, it looks and feels much more solid - better quality. Now I have tape over the switches and have found the menu selection to keep the backlight on all the time, I love using it - much clearer level indication.
Drawback is the time the 24/96 files take to transfer to the pc...
-
^^^^^^
Wich menu selection does that? I haven't found it yet.
Hope to hear from you.
-
You can do this by pressing Menu, going to Display Setup and setting the Display Timer to Off. There are also three levels of brightness for the backlight, so I went for "1", which is bright enough for me!
-
Great!
Thanks for the info!
-
I notice the line in socket is at the top of the R-05 recorder, I'm not too sure if this is an improvement especially as it was my line in socket that was an issue with the R-09HR?
I have an original R-09 that's still going strong after 3+ years (knock on wood) and its MIC and LINE inputs are on the top like the R-05 (and the Sony M10). Personally, I prefer it that way especially in those >:D situations where I have the recorder in my pants pocket. No connections jutting out of the sides (as on the R-09HR) means things are less likely to get caught and break and the recorder slides in and out of my pocket easier. YMMV.
On another note, and I don't know if this has been pointed out in a different thread, I think a big reason for the price differences is that the R-09 series (and possibly the M10??) is made in Japan whereas the R-05 is made in China. Food for thought.
-
I pretty much find the R05 to be the perfect replacement for my old R09 (for my purposes), plus it has 24/96, and feels more solid. I also prefer the jack sockets to be on the top.
-
My new R05 did not come with a cover, so I'm using it "au naturel". Got home last night after a gig and noticed that two of the three switches on the back had been moved across towards "on" (limiter and low cut).
In my past experience with other recorders (not the R05) the limiter and low cut would only affect your recordings if you were not using the line in.