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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: OldNeumanntapr on December 27, 2010, 12:40:07 AM
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I was just told, while shopping for a new CD player for my wife's '07 Toyota Corolla, that in early 2011 CDs will no longer be produced, and players will soon not be made anymore either. If CD players (both auto & home) will no longer be made in the coming years then how are we to use our ever expanding music collections? I was told that downloads to iPods will be the ONLY source of music in the coming years. Compressed MP-3 files will be the norm. That makes no sense to me at all! I asked what will be the new format, because I have switched formats twice already, (from cassette to DAT to CDR) and was told that there will be NO MORE FORMATS for home recordings. Only computer downloads. I was told that movies would be the same way in five years and that the new Blu Ray format will also be obsolete. I asked about portable hard drives and was told that they will not work with the new car audio systems. I guess I am looking at the end of my high end car system. :(
I have always been a stereo freak and used my tape recorders (both cassette and DAT) as my primary source for collecting and trading music. I always figured that once I got my DATs archived to CDR there would be another format change and I'd have to start all over with yet another format, but I am shocked beyond belief at the idea that there will be no further formats for home recording. I collect audio-only CDRs of live music, and don't do the FLAC thing because they won't play on my high-end car system and that is the primary place that I listen to music.
I guess I just don't understand why people are so wrapped up in this MP-3 thing. I think they sound like crap, but it seems that a lot of people can't hear the difference. Have we gotten to the point where quantity rules supreme over sound QUALITY???
It makes me want to buy three or four nice CD players and maybe a DVD player or two and stick them in the closet for the coming years. What are we going do, as live music collectors? Will my music collection that I have spent so many years working on be unusable?
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Instead of cd's, dvd's and blueray people will just use flash or hard disks.
Many of us already watch tv on a hard dive in out pvr's. I have a pc hooked up to my stereo and that is where the flacs come from. I have already made the switch, mostly.
Just because the media is obsolete doesn't mean that the quality of the content needs to be poor. I'm sure that there will always be HQ audio and video.
I think that throw away media is bad for the environment anyway. Once in a while I'll burn a disc for someone that is still using dated technology, buy less and less as time goes on.
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I collect audio-only CDRs of live music, and don't do the FLAC thing because they won't play on my high-end car system and that is the primary place that I listen to music.
I guess I just don't understand why people are so wrapped up in this MP-3 thing. I think they sound like crap, but it seems that a lot of people can't hear the difference. Have we gotten to the point where quantity rules supreme over sound QUALITY???
It makes me want to buy three or four nice CD players and maybe a DVD player or two and stick them in the closet for the coming years. What are we going do, as live music collectors? Will my music collection that I have spent so many years working on be unusable?
Well, it's sort of an exaggeration that it will all die out next year, but not by much (imho). I guess not many here will be bothered, because a large percentage of us all use hard drives now for flac sets. I haven't put music on cdr in a good 2 or 3 year unless like noted above that I'm sending something to someone who's not up to snuff on newer tech. I'm actually now getting more requests for stuff in either mp3/flac on cdr instead of cdda on cdr to the point where I can go almost half the year without having to do a cdda disc. Now, I've got a good 6 or 7 external jumbo hard drives with flacs on them, so all of my stuff is available much easier then the cds ever were.
I'm not down on mp3s. There is a time and place to me, and I can't tell enough of a difference between a lame v0 mp3 and the original flac unless I'm using my home system at which point it becomes really easy. Too much road noise in my car and my office speakers suck so it's moot to me. Bigger problems to work on sort of thing. I havn't traded for music in a good 7 years so I don't worry about the audio pool out there anymore. I tape what I want or know and trust the person I'm getting stuff from so it's a non issue to me.
As for your collection being unusable, as long as there is a CD reader and EAC/cdparanoia, you can make the shift to file sets, but a bigger question I have for you is; have you checked for cd rot lately? Some of my oldest discs (aprox 10 yrs now) are starting to rot. Lost about half of my oldest two binders so far when I checked this fall after years without looking. I have a massive led zeppelin collection that I'll have to decide what to do with in about 12 months before the first discs start to fall near that time frame...
You might consider looking for a car player that handles flac discs, I swear I've seen one that did before in a rental car once.
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I was just told, while shopping for a new CD player for my wife's '07 Toyota Corolla, that in early 2011 CDs will no longer be produced, and players will soon not be made anymore either. If CD players (both auto & home) will no longer be made in the coming years then how are we to use our ever expanding music collections? I was told that downloads to iPods will be the ONLY source of music in the coming years. Compressed MP-3 files will be the norm. That makes no sense to me at all! I asked what will be the new format, because I have switched formats twice already, (from cassette to DAT to CDR) and was told that there will be NO MORE FORMATS for home recordings. Only computer downloads. I was told that movies would be the same way in five years and that the new Blu Ray format will also be obsolete. I asked about portable hard drives and was told that they will not work with the new car audio systems. I guess I am looking at the end of my high end car system. :(
I have always been a stereo freak and used my tape recorders (both cassette and DAT) as my primary source for collecting and trading music. I always figured that once I got my DATs archived to CDR there would be another format change and I'd have to start all over with yet another format, but I am shocked beyond belief at the idea that there will be no further formats for home recording. I collect audio-only CDRs of live music, and don't do the FLAC thing because they won't play on my high-end car system and that is the primary place that I listen to music.
I guess I just don't understand why people are so wrapped up in this MP-3 thing. I think they sound like crap, but it seems that a lot of people can't hear the difference. Have we gotten to the point where quantity rules supreme over sound QUALITY???
It makes me want to buy three or four nice CD players and maybe a DVD player or two and stick them in the closet for the coming years. What are we going do, as live music collectors? Will my music collection that I have spent so many years working on be unusable?
Get with the times brother! >:D
Master on flash - archive on HD - get an up to date car player that plays flacs.
CDR is so NOT a high end format...your cassettes will outlive them.
And - realize many of us already listen to 24bit flac sets exclusively...and poo-poo 16 bit.
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i agree with everyone here, but I question your info source. I mean the truth of Toyota not including cd players maybe true if your hear it at a car dealer, but I question them as a source on the entire electronics industry, I have a friend who is a car salesman and he is generally clueless about all other things. I dont see the industry making that move that fast. It took the auto industry 5 yrs just to stop putting cassette decks in cars once they started using cd players...dont believe everything ya hear.
that being said, yep these times they are changing, evolve or become extinct.
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goes and flips his record, and looks at the thick layer of dust on the digishizzer thingie.
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watch out for those tar pits moke.
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i agree with everyone here, but I question your info source. I mean the truth of Toyota not including cd players maybe true if your hear it at a car dealer, but I question them as a source on the entire electronics industry, I have a friend who is a car salesman and he is generally clueless about all other things. I dont see the industry making that move that fast. It took the auto industry 5 yrs just to stop putting cassette decks in cars once they started using cd players...dont believe everything ya hear.
that being said, yep these times they are changing, evolve or become extinct.
I agree. My car from 2004 came brand new with a cassette player in it. :o CDs are not going to totally die out by next year. Yeah, they are already on the decline, but they are still going to be around.
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watch out for those tar pits moke.
get off my lawn! :)
My favorite players are older than, or, as old as I am (and still totally active, daily use), ranging between 1952->1964. So it might be a while before I catch back up with the bleeding edge of technology.
And, I have a cassette deck in the truck.
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Worth noting...
Both Target and Wal-Mart had stacks of ION USB turntables...which I found surprising.
Its not a great turntable - but that position in the marketplace sure increases the likleyhood of someone getting into their grampas record collection.
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This is unfortunate news for those of us that like to have an "hard copy" of our archived music.
I still do not trust HD with an eventual crash lurking in the distance...then everything is gone anyway.
So a DVD to archive music is only gloing to last approx. 10 years if that? I have heard this mentioned elsewhere on this site but where is everyone getting their source info from? I'd like to read up a bit more on the topic.
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This is unfortunate news for those of us that like to have an "hard copy" of our archived music.
I still do not trust HD with an eventual crash lurking in the distance...then everything is gone anyway.
I just use multiple drives for redundancy and hit 2/3rds of the 3-2-1 rule (3 copies, 2 different media, 1 off site). I check the drives and rsync any differences about 6 times a year.
So a DVD to archive music is only gloing to last approx. 10 years if that? I have heard this mentioned elsewhere on this site but where is everyone getting their source info from? I'd like to read up a bit more on the topic.
I'd only vaguely read it years ago, but I dug out a binder about a month ago and had a bunch of discs including various generics, TDKs, and a couple Verbatim CDRs develop the hazy green hue/bubbles of disc rot. The two binders which had the oldest stuff in it at that. :'(
i honestly thought I'd get a good 15 before running into problems.
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I have DVDs that are already failing...less than 5 years old. Wont read.
I dont trust DVD media - no matter what brands are claimed to be the best.
And - I dont get the "hard copy" notion...?
I think your confusing "1:1 archiving" with "hard copy" - no matter how you store the digits - you have a de facto "hard copy"
/Multiple Redundant Hard Drives seems like solid and reliable solution...just requires a bit of discipline and adaptation.
While Im sure we've all had one fail - I'll trust a new HD over DVD media any day.
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Thanks for advice, but I still don't know which direction I should take. I'm kind of uneasy of the idea of putting everything on a hard drive in the event of a crash. I like to have a hard copy of my music. I have archived much of my DAT collection on an HHb CDR 800 PRO, and that machine is unable to encode CD text on the discs. So, if I did put my DAT->CDR recordings onto a hard drive I would have no idea what was on each of the files. How do I get around that to title the selections?
I never liked the iPod thing because they were only MP-3, which I refuse to convert to. Plus, when I have given music that I have recorded to friends for their iPods they are all 'untitled'. Track 1, 2,3, etc. Also, it seems like the iPods all have a two second pause between songs, something that would drive me insane.
Is there a portable media player on the market that will play FLACs and work with a Mac? I guess I could convert my audio-only discs to FLAC but I've not seen any car players that will play FLACs. Some people have posted that they are indeed available though.
Thanks again for everyone's help.
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Thanks for advice, but I still don't know which direction I should take. I'm kind of uneasy of the idea of putting everything on a hard drive in the event of a crash.
Well, not "a" hard drive - you need several. Redundancy is the key - the idea being the chances of all your HD failing at once is remote - especially if you keep one off site.
I have archived much of my DAT collection on an HHb CDR 800 PRO, and that machine is unable to encode CD text on the discs...
Sorry to say - If you want the best transfer - you'll need to go back to your DAT masters and re-transfer them to computer. Otherwise you are archiving a 1st gen digital copy. Im sure DAT>PC is always the preferred linage.
Adding metadata (Song Titles, etc) is simple - and wouldn't be much different if you go EAC or DAT>PC...you still have to type the song titles at some point.
I never liked the iPod thing because they were only MP-3...
And - I dont think you'll find anyone here advocating mp3 as an archival format! So - its sort of moot.
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I never liked the iPod thing because they were only MP-3, which I refuse to convert to. Plus, when I have given music that I have recorded to friends for their iPods they are all 'untitled'. Track 1, 2,3, etc. Also, it seems like the iPods all have a two second pause between songs, something that would drive me insane.
You can also use iTunes to create Apple Lossless files, and you can designate tracks as part of a gapless album to avoid the two second pause.
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I was just told, while shopping for a new CD player for my wife's '07 Toyota Corolla, that in early 2011 CDs will no longer be produced, and players will soon not be made anymore either. If CD players (both auto & home) will no longer be made in the coming years then how are we to use our ever expanding music collections? I was told that downloads to iPods will be the ONLY source of music in the coming years. Compressed MP-3 files will be the norm. That makes no sense to me at all! I asked what will be the new format, because I have switched formats twice already, (from cassette to DAT to CDR) and was told that there will be NO MORE FORMATS for home recordings. Only computer downloads. I was told that movies would be the same way in five years and that the new Blu Ray format will also be obsolete. I asked about portable hard drives and was told that they will not work with the new car audio systems. I guess I am looking at the end of my high end car system. :(
CDs will be produced for years to come. If not for the US market, for foreign markets... Just because we've gone to iPods doesn't mean that CD Tech won't be around elsewhere. You'll be able to find CDs for a long while...
However, I do see the "norm" becoming HHD based "media", rather than physical media.
I have always been a stereo freak and used my tape recorders (both cassette and DAT) as my primary source for collecting and trading music. I always figured that once I got my DATs archived to CDR there would be another format change and I'd have to start all over with yet another format, but I am shocked beyond belief at the idea that there will be no further formats for home recording. I collect audio-only CDRs of live music, and don't do the FLAC thing because they won't play on my high-end car system and that is the primary place that I listen to music.
All of here are stereo-freaks too. Most of us however have gone to some kind of computer based playback. You can find a ton of USB driven PC>Stereo devices, as well as soundcards with SPDIF and/or TOSLINK outputs... A few of us use DVD Audio through a DVD Player... I would still use CDRs, but my Stereo got hit by lightning several months ago... Now its the dreaded iPod at work for most of my listening...
As for CDR Audio vs. FLAC. I'll have to be honest in my opinion - you were short-sighted in doing CDR Audio rather than FLAC. You could always burn your own CDR Audios form FLAC, but you could always keep the FLACs on the shelf for later use - like now... I started out CDR Audio, but when I realized I could lose CDRs and not have a way to get them replaced, it became a necessity to go SHN/FLAC... I have about a 1000 Data CDRs with SHN/FLACs in my Archive... I'll probably never touch them, but they are there...
That being said, it has become VERY easy to get SHN/FLACs through BitTorrent... You could probably replace your entire collection in a couple of months...
I guess I just don't understand why people are so wrapped up in this MP-3 thing. I think they sound like crap, but it seems that a lot of people can't hear the difference. Have we gotten to the point where quantity rules supreme over sound QUALITY???
Quantity rules... I have a 1tb HHD at work with enough MP3s on it to play non-stop for over 3 months, without repeating a single track. Considering its a loud work environment (computer lab) and I'm costatnly being interupted, Quality isn't as important as having access the "that" song "right now".
It makes me want to buy three or four nice CD players and maybe a DVD player or two and stick them in the closet for the coming years. What are we going do, as live music collectors? Will my music collection that I have spent so many years working on be unusable?
I would invest your money in external hardrives and a way to go from your PC to your Stereo. I've been looking at 24bit USB DACs lately, but I also have a Squeezebox that i've never used... If I were you, I would look on CraigList and buy a stripped down Desktop PC, get an MAudio Audiophile 2496 and a video card that does HDMI. Run the video to your HDTV, and the MAudio to your Stereo. As you need, turn on the TV and switch to the PC HDMI input, then use your PC like your music player through the Stereo. You could use a player like Foobar to access external HHDs and have multitudes of 24/96 FLACs available for use through your stereo...
Terry
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Adding metadata (Song Titles, etc) is simple - and wouldn't be much different if you go EAC or DAT>PC...you still have to type the song titles at some point.
Either typed in a text file or as meta data in flac files. Either or.
I never liked the iPod thing because they were only MP-3, which I refuse to convert to. Plus, when I have given music that I have recorded to friends for their iPods they are all 'untitled'. Track 1, 2,3, etc. Also, it seems like the iPods all have a two second pause between songs, something that would drive me insane.
You can also use iTunes to create Apple Lossless files, and you can designate tracks as part of a gapless album to avoid the two second pause.
Many flac players, whether on the mac (Songbird for instance) or handheld (like a rockbox'ed unit) can do gapless flac playback if that is of interest to you.
Terry has some nice suggestions that I generally concur with.
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On a side note, I bought an Alpine stereo for my car a long time ago. Later I bought a cable off of EBAY that gave me an AUX input via the CD Changer ipunt on the back of the Alpine. I was able to run any 1/8" output into my car stereo with ease, including my Wife's iPod (for road trips) and my Tascam HD-P2 (listening to my recording driving home from the show). I had a buddy at work use a 1/16>1/8 adapter to run audio out of his cell-phone to his car-stereo...
There are a ton of people here that have worked thourhg this same issue... Just ask around and do a bunch of reading, you'll eventually find a new method of playback that suits you and the new technology...
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/2713385
Terry
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I have archived much of my DAT collection on an HHb CDR 800 PRO, and that machine is unable to encode CD text on the discs...
Sorry to say - If you want the best transfer - you'll need to go back to your DAT masters and re-transfer them to computer. Otherwise you are archiving a 1st gen digital copy. Im sure DAT>PC is always the preferred linage.
It's taken me years to archive my DAT collection to CDR and I still have a good 1/3 of it left to do. I bought the HHb CDR 800 new in '98 for $1,800, after waiting for it to come down in price. The first CDR recorder that I saw was made by Marantz and it had a list price of $5,000 when it first came out. Also, when I got my HHb I don't believe 80 minute discs were as of yet available, and 74 minutes just didn't cut it. I like the HHb 800 standalone because it is more like a tape recorder and is easier for me to use, hooked up to my DAT recorders. I know that computer-based work stations have more features but I think the learning curve would be higher for me. I prefer Macs over PCs because I think they are easier to use. I'm not thrilled to think of starting over with the archival process. I have mostly been doing this for myself anyway. Most of the people that I have traded with have never seemed all that keen on my recordings. Everyone wants soundboards.
The whole point of this is that I was hoping that the CDR discs would last better than the DATs, which are not the best archival storage media. Digital error problems + magnetic tape problems.:(
Thanks again to everyone for the advice.
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It's taken me years to archive my DAT collection to CDR and I still have a good 1/3 of it left to do. I bought the HHb CDR 800 new in '98
At the time, you were doing the best you could do. You have options here: EAC the discs and let those be your new Masters, or re-transfer the DATs.
I've been using my Tascam HD-P2 for transfers lately, since my 15mo son lets me get out like never... Anyways, I've been doing Sony DAT > SPDIF cable > HD-P2 to do DAT transfers. Then I take the Flash Card out of the P2 and copy to my PC. After some work, I can burn to CD, or save to an external HHD as FLAC files for later burning/listening/archiving. You might have luck doing your transfers this way, if you can find a nice cheap 16bit recorder with SPDIF input. The MicroTracker might be a good candidate, but I dont think it's a "good" unit. You might have to pay a little more...
Terry
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Found this looking at other threads here...
http://www.squidoo.com/portable-flac-player-comparisons
Terry
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Good comments here...rant follows... >:D
I was an early adopter of CD-R tech...dropped 3K on a Marantz in 93...that thing sucked big time...biggest audio pile of shit I ever owned...never give Marantz a dime again.
CDR had to be the most untested tech ever dropped in our laps..."red book compatible" - who fucking cares....! I just want the 15 dollar blanks to PLAY!!! Just get me that far - then we can worry about nuances...
Im surprised no one class-actioned their asses. That Marantz CD-R 6X0 stuff sucked...
Most of the stuff I mastered on that unit is long since rotted or destroyed...I remember Verbatim discs that only required the touch of a finger to shed the data layer. Rubbish.
The masters have outlived the backups!
By the time we got to 25 cent media - my faith was lost. Too little...too late!
The Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 was the breakthrough for tapers...Finally we could put DAT in our rear view...like digital cameras - we could take a lot more "pictures" without financial penalty..."blanks"??? What are those?!!!
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www.vinylrecorder.com
maybe the answer to all your ills ......
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www.vinylrecorder.com
maybe the answer to all your ills ......
HA! >:D
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http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20176
Intel has added a fresh line of solid-state drives to its growing portfolio of storage products. This isn't the long-awaited successor to the X25-M family, though. Instead, the new 310 Series brings the X25-M's controller architecture and 34-nano flash to the tiny mini-SATA form factor.
Otherwise known as mSATA, the diminutive SSD form factor pipes Serial ATA signaling over a mini PCI Express connector. Mini is the operative word all around. SSDs in the 310 Series measure just 51 x 30 x 5.8 mm, which is roughly 11% of the volume of 2.5" drives with a 9.5-mm thickness. Even standard 1.8" drives look portly in comparison, being more than four times larger than a 310 Series offering. With a weight of less than 10 grams per SSD, the 310 Series doesn't have much heft, either.
(http://techreport.com/r.x/2010q4/intel-310.jpg)
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On craigslist you can still get cassette players and turntables so 10-20 years from now I'm sure there will be a fine market for vintage cd players to pull out the old media that didn't get transferred. And then what about file formats on hard drives - was this FAT32? NTFS? EXT4? Gotta get the converter file or buy an old computer to play those old files. It will be a never ending pain in the ass.
My first cd-rs are starting to fail, too but I keep in mind "I found this on the internet and I can get it back because it has to be somewhere on the internet".
And yes the internet will crash and fail and become victimized by greed and control in the future, too and all the people who backed up on cassette will congregate in Boulder and all the people who have vinyl will be in Vegas and there will be some sort of epic battle . . .
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On craigslist you can still get cassette players and turntables so 10-20 years from now I'm sure there will be a fine market for vintage cd players to pull out the old media that didn't get transferred. And then what about file formats on hard drives - was this FAT32? NTFS? EXT4? Gotta get the converter file or buy an old computer to play those old files. It will be a never ending pain in the ass.
And yes the internet will crash and fail and become victimized by greed and control in the future, too and all the people who backed up on cassette will congregate in Boulder and all the people who have vinyl will be in Vegas and there will be some sort of epic battle . . .
Yes, I agree. I'm sure that CD players will be around for a while but it's disturbing to think about not having a standardized format to progress to. I remember wondering what formats of the future would be like 25 years ago. I always thought that I'd be continually changing to a better system. So far every one of my formats have had problems. Cassette was hissy, especially a couple of generations down the line, and susceptible to all the demons of magnetic tape: print through, dropouts, shedding, etc. DAT had error problems, too many tiny delicate parts, Plus all the problems of magnetic tape. CDR seemed to be the way to go at first but they get scratched, rot, skip for no reason, and were limited at least at first to only 74 minutes. 80 is not much better.
I just keep coming around to the fact that our niche is getting smaller, and the music / electronic industry is geared for people who listen to commercial studio albums / tracks, and don't mind the poor sonic quality of MP-3. I was told once that 'Live concert albums do not sell well', but I listen primarily to live concerts and have never liked studio cuts. I remember when MD and DCC came out (remember them anyone) and I shunned them because of compression. Now compression and those DREADED gaps between tracks seem to be the norm.
Sigh.
BTW. 22 years tonight I saw Hot Tuna for the first time at the Fillmore. Awesome show!
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Sorry to say - If you want the best transfer - you'll need to go back to your DAT masters and re-transfer them to computer. Otherwise you are archiving a 1st gen digital copy. Im sure DAT>PC is always the preferred linage.
It's taken me years to archive my DAT collection to CDR and I still have a good 1/3 of it left to do. I bought the HHb CDR 800 new in '98
At the time, you were doing the best you could do. You have options here: EAC the discs and let those be your new Masters, or re-transfer the DATs.
Is there any consensus on re-importing DAT > HDD versus EAC master discs? I have a lot of discs that were tranfers from DAT > HHB-830 which I understand was a fine unit. Maybe I should start a different thread, but it was brought up here.
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On craigslist you can still get cassette players and turntables so 10-20 years from now I'm sure there will be a fine market for vintage cd players to pull out the old media that didn't get transferred. And then what about file formats on hard drives - was this FAT32? NTFS? EXT4? Gotta get the converter file or buy an old computer to play those old files. It will be a never ending pain in the ass.
And yes the internet will crash and fail and become victimized by greed and control in the future, too and all the people who backed up on cassette will congregate in Boulder and all the people who have vinyl will be in Vegas and there will be some sort of epic battle . . .
Yes, I agree. I'm sure that CD players will be around for a while but it's disturbing to think about not having a standardized format to progress to. I remember wondering what formats of the future would be like 25 years ago. I always thought that I'd be continually changing to a better system. So far every one of my formats have had problems. Cassette was hissy, especially a couple of generations down the line, and susceptible to all the demons of magnetic tape: print through, dropouts, shedding, etc. DAT had error problems, too many tiny delicate parts, Plus all the problems of magnetic tape. CDR seemed to be the way to go at first but they get scratched, rot, skip for no reason, and were limited at least at first to only 74 minutes. 80 is not much better.
I just keep coming around to the fact that our niche is getting smaller, and the music / electronic industry is geared for people who listen to commercial studio albums / tracks, and don't mind the poor sonic quality of MP-3. I was told once that 'Live concert albums do not sell well', but I listen primarily to live concerts and have never liked studio cuts. I remember when MD and DCC came out (remember them anyone) and I shunned them because of compression. Now compression and those DREADED gaps between tracks seem to be the norm.
Sigh.
BTW. 22 years tonight I saw Hot Tuna for the first time at the Fillmore. Awesome show!
You're missing something here...
The new format for mastering is small recorders and flash drives (its just a DAT deck with no moving parts...or tape)
Archiving is FLAC and HD/SSD
If anything - recording tech is FAR MORE standardized that it was 10-15 years ago.
And all those formats from the past - DAT is surprisingly robust...and all my cassettes still play.
Its the more recent technologies that we have lusted for that have burned us (CDR/DVD) - and the lessons learned from those have pointed us to where we are now.
Things are VERY standardized...
Our niche...smaller - uh no...
Ever hear of the Live Music Archive, bt.etree.org, thetradersden.org, dimeadozen.net...taperssection.com??? The internet...?
Still a niche perhaps - but growing in all sorts of ways. The border between hobby and profession is much closer than in the older days...
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Considering DAT was only officially retired this year and many of us haven't been using them for a long time I don't see CDs going anywhere anytime soon.
VHS still readily available etc etc. You can still buy brand new turntables,
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Considering DAT was only officially retired this year and many of us haven't been using them for a long time I don't see CDs going anywhere anytime soon.
VHS still readily available etc etc. You can still buy brand new turntables,
Not quite the same - there are no DAT decks being made...nor have there been for sometime.
Sony discontinued support for DAT in 2005...So not sure about being "retired" this year...?
Once the current crop of DAT decks conks out...its over. Sony D7s are what - almost 20 years old?
DAT never had the level of acceptance in the mainstream as VHS or vinyl - so dont expect to see it hang around as long.
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Sorry to say - If you want the best transfer - you'll need to go back to your DAT masters and re-transfer them to computer. Otherwise you are archiving a 1st gen digital copy. Im sure DAT>PC is always the preferred linage.
It's taken me years to archive my DAT collection to CDR and I still have a good 1/3 of it left to do. I bought the HHb CDR 800 new in '98
At the time, you were doing the best you could do. You have options here: EAC the discs and let those be your new Masters, or re-transfer the DATs.
Is there any consensus on re-importing DAT > HDD versus EAC master discs? I have a lot of discs that were tranfers from DAT > HHB-830 which I understand was a fine unit. Maybe I should start a different thread, but it was brought up here.
In my opinion, you would be fine just using EAC with the master discs you already made. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned something about a 1st gen digital copy and being better to go DAT>PC, which I disagree with completely unless you were making analog transfers from your DAT deck to your CD burner. If you were running coax between the decks, those CDRs are the same as if you had run the burner at the show running, exactly the same.
I take issue with some of the dramatic statements basically implying that all CDs and DVDs destined to go bad within a few years, which reminds me of the claims made back in the late '90s that all DAT tapes would become unplayable after about 10 years of storage. Sure, there have been many true stories of premature failure incidents with every type of medium to store recorded sound, analog tape, digital tape, optical media, hard discs, whatever. However, I believe that a collection of dozens, even hundreds of reports of various incidents of failures does not make a trend when stacked against the billions of hours of archived recordings that have not failed and the information is just as good today as ever.
I have been archiving DAT masters from my collection and so far, I have found even 18 year old DATs without a single pop, tick, or dropout. My collection has been properly stored, the tapes not overplayed, and rarely lent out to be copied by someone else on foreign equipment that could pass the old "digital VD" that used to be a risk lending out DATs. I usually made people copies on my own gear, instead of lending them the DAT masters.
I am an advocate of multiple backups, and also don't believe random predictions of what the future will look like. As a result, I back up all my raw wave files on both HDD and DVDRs, just so I am covered with both methods. One thing about a DVD is when it fails, it's one show, versus if a HDD craps out, it's every show on the drive. So, backups of HDDs are also very important, as has been stated.
As far as CD medium going away, players, etc. I don't see that. What I see is a move to universal players that will play any of the 5" optical disc formats, CD, DVD, and Blueray. Certainly 5" drives will continue to be supported for computers, even if consumer electronic makers stop making CD players. Just like DAT machines are still being serviced and kept going in studios across the country because of the massive amount of material on DAT, people still have CD collections, some very large. 5" optical discs will be around for a long time, even if they descend to a niche group of users, it will still be large enough a group to warrant continued support of the format. In the early '80s, it was common for "pundits" to claim that the LP would eventually cease to exist, and turntables relegated to glass display cases in museums. Well, obviously that did not happen, 30 years after CDs first hit the market, if anything we have seen a surge in interest in both releases on vinyl, and new models of hardware to play them. Even cassette is still supported, although now mostly through commercial/professional gear makers like Tascam and Marantz, but you can still buy blanks.
As far as CD, the largest single marketing segment in the US is still baby boomers, which means anyone 45 and older. I just deducting off the top of my head, but this segment of the population likely comprises more than 50% of the physical possession of all commercially produced CDs in existance. A 50 year old with a CD collection they started building in 1982 is not going to throw it out and replace it with something else. Sure, many in this segment have embraced ipods and other mp3 players, but they still buy CD box sets and new releases of bands that mean something to them with their statistically higher level of disposable income than the younger age demographics.
Clearly, the big difference in viewpoint about the future of CD can be divided between the age group that has never known a world without CD, and those from the age group that plainly recall the time when CDs and digital audio was introduced as a new format.
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I never liked the iPod thing because they were only MP-3
iPods aren't and never have been "only MP-3"
Also, it seems like the iPods all have a two second pause between songs
nope, not the case
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just like it always has been, the answer to any medium (be it vinyl, cassette, dat or whatever) is redundancy.. having a backup of something is truly the only way to go when the one you use fails. this holds true for everything though as *everything* can and will fail at sometime (car, tv, computer, front door, jacket zipper etc) so why not have another one standing by in case of just that? with digital media it's easier than ever.....
while I do see the demise of the "cd" at some point it really does make sense. especially when there comes a time when we can have a terrabyte ss thumbdrive at our disposal I see no need for anything else..
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One thing about a DVD is when it fails, it's one show, versus if a HDD craps out, it's every show on the drive. So, backups of HDDs are also very important, as has been stated.
As far as CD medium going away, players, etc. I don't see that. What I see is a move to universal players that will play any of the 5" optical disc formats, CD, DVD, and Blueray. Certainly 5" drives will continue to be supported for computers, even if consumer electronic makers stop making CD players.
In the early '80s, it was common for "pundits" to claim that the LP would eventually cease to exist, and turntables relegated to glass display cases in museums. Well, obviously that did not happen, 30 years after CDs first hit the market, if anything we have seen a surge in interest in both releases on vinyl, and new models of hardware to play them.
As far as CD, the largest single marketing segment in the US is still baby boomers, which means anyone 45 and older. I just deducting off the top of my head, but this segment of the population likely comprises more than 50% of the physical possession of all commercially produced CDs in existance. A 50 year old with a CD collection they started building in 1982 is not going to throw it out and replace it with something else.
Clearly, the big difference in viewpoint about the future of CD can be divided between the age group that has never known a world without CD, and those from the age group that plainly recall the time when CDs and digital audio was introduced as a new format.
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Good points. Thank you for your post. I agree with what you said about if a DVD fails it's only one show but if a HD crashes everything is lost on the drive. I remember well premonitions of turntables being regulated to the pages of history and that clearly has not happened. I still use mine and I know a lot of others do as well. Multi-format disc players sound like a good idea.
I clearly remember when the Compact Disc was first invented, as I was in high school at the time. Good point about the 'future of CD can be divided between the age group that plainly recall the time when CDs and digital audio was introduced as a new format.'
So true.
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Considering DAT was only officially retired this year and many of us haven't been using them for a long time I don't see CDs going anywhere anytime soon.
VHS still readily available etc etc. You can still buy brand new turntables,
Not quite the same - there are no DAT decks being made...nor have there been for sometime.
Sony discontinued support for DAT in 2005...So not sure about being "retired" this year...?
Once the current crop of DAT decks conks out...its over. Sony D7s are what - almost 20 years old?
DAT never had the level of acceptance in the mainstream as VHS or vinyl - so dont expect to see it hang around as long.
Sorry I thought I recalled seeing an article in the open forum this year saying that DATs were no longer being produced as of this year, and that it was officially discontinued as a product.
I was simply saying that if DAT lasted as long as it did that CDs should be around for a hell of a lot longer. a "no need to panic" type statement.