Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: br305893 on March 09, 2011, 01:47:19 PM
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Hi,
I'm just wondering what kind of equipment I need to start taping. I've always noticed people doing it during shows, and I want to start doing it as well.
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A good place to start: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=35278.0
and then look through: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=35004.0
< the info in this thread is 5+ years old so some of the equipment is outdated but there is still very good basic information here >
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If you saw people doing it, I assume you mean "open" taping with a mic stand, which is commonly associated with the Grateful Dead and "jam" bands.
The short and sweet answer is mics, some kind of power source, and a recorder. Some self-mounted setups consist of nothing but that.
If you are trying to do what people do at Phish shows, there is lots of other gear to add, though the basic setup (in order of importance) is still:
mics
power supply/preamp
recorder (or a recorder with power integrated)
cables
stand
Then there are tons of clamps, gear bags, gaffer's tape, safety clips, earplugs, headphones, batteries, connectors etc. etc. etc. that you can buy!
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This is like asking us what kind of car to buy.
Budget is a huge factor. Spending $1000 (or $5000) on a rig isn't hard. I'm not saying money is everything, but you don't get much of a rig for $100. $300-$500 will get you a good used set of mics, recorder, and maybe a preamp.
What kind of music do you intend to tape? If it's mostly the big pro-taping bands (Phish, Allman Brothers, Panic, Mule) there are generally lots of tapers at those shows. You can start off with a small recorder and patch from the other guys while you learn the ropes. If you are open taping, but they are bands that other tapers seldom show up at, then you need your own mics. If you are stealth taping, then you need small gear.
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Mostly big pro-taping bands, with some smaller ones included.
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Give use a budget. It will help with answer a great deal
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About $500
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please read " start here" at the begining of the form. these questions r just getting old. ed
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This thread is supposed to be newb friendly. That means there are no stupid questions. But he's right, a certain resourcefulness is absolutely a must if you want to succeed at this. Start reading!
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About $500
AFTER reading "Start Here" you'll probably conclude:
Inexpensive small portable (Sony PCM-M10 or something less expensive like one of the Tascams): ~200 or less
Small battery box or preamp: $39-150 from Church Audio
Church Audio CA-14 mics: ~$150 from Church Audio
Or, for a fullsize rig
Studio Projects C4 (around $200)
Really cheap recorder (maybe you can find something for $100 like one of the least expensive Tascams)
Naiant littlebox (a nice piece of gear that can grow with your rig) - ~$230
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please read " start here" at the begining of the form. these questions r just getting old. ed
It must be a terrible burden to have to complain every time someone asks.
FWIW, when one reads those threads, among the information one sees is an apologetic note that they are out-of-date and a recommendation to "ask the experts here." (That said, I did lurk and read for a month before posting. Still.)
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please read " start here" at the begining of the form. these questions r just getting old. ed
It must be a terrible burden to have to complain every time someone asks.
FWIW, when one reads those threads, among the information one sees is an apologetic note that they are out-of-date and a recommendation to "ask the experts here." (That said, I did lurk and read for a month before posting. Still.)
i will complain, read and learn alittle before asking such a broad question. " what will i need to record " thats bs. newbie friendly question is more like " what is the avantage of a hand held recorder with 1/8 input to a full size recorder with balanced xlr's. if i got to tell u what a 1/8 inch input jack or what a xlr input is, its time to do some reading, here, or some where else. if u know better Bob, u handel all the newbie questions. ed
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So slight continuation of the highjack, I basically started with the same logic as the OP recently. I did read up a bit and fashioned the question slightly more informed than the OP but it was basically the same question. From a newcomer who has no background in electronics or taping, a lot of the simple answers can be overwhelming if you're just looking to get into the hobby for purely recreational purposes (I don't know the difference between balanced/unbalanced or line-in/mic-in as just a start to my niavete. Granted, I don't ask because if I really wanted to know google is always right there in my browser, but its hard to know where to start when you're just starting).
But, back to the OP, like acidjack said:
you need mics (obviously), a recorder to save the sound coming into the mics, and then most likely a way to provide enough power to the mics to handle the "amount" of sound reaching them (as in a pre-amp or battery box). On top of that you need a way to place the mics where you want them (a clamp/stand, a way to put the mics on said stand, cables to connect all the pieces in the chain, and a place to put all this expensive stuff during the recording process).
I've got the CA-14 set up and will happily advertise to a newcomer. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141135.0. If you choose the 14s and 9100 pre combo all you need is a recorder and you're good to go. As acidjack mentioned the Sony M-10 is a very popular recorder right now, doesn't seem like you can go wrong with that. Though an Edirol R-09, R-09HR, iRiver H1xx series, Zoom Hx series also seem to be popular inexpensive recorders out there now.
as for stands I just got this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253067-REG/Impact_LS10AB_Air_Cushioned_Light_Stand.html
its much less intense than I thought it'd be. Almost "flimsy" but seeing as I'm putting CA-14s on there its exactly what I was looking for.
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^^^ achalsey is right, that impact stand is nice and won't break your back. Also cheap. I have one of these (along with, now, a taller Manfrotto) but still like the Impact for the compactness and light weight, esp if I don't need more than 8ft (that's how tall mine is).
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I can only answer for the lower-end gear I use personally. You could get one of the Tascams (DR-07, DR-08, DR-05) for around $100 and then get a CA-14 package (cardioid mics, omni mics, pre-amp)from Church Audio in the retail section for $269. That will leave you enough for a decent stand (I got my manfrotto 368B at B&H for around $60) and some rechargeables (i use maha powerex 9.6v and Maha Imedion AAs). I've been taping for two years and I'm still happy with my Church gear. I've made all my own mic mounts for just a couple of dollars each.
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^^ I know I just recommended them, but having heard the latest about the line level inputs of the Tascams not being able to take very hot signals vis a vis the M10, is that still a valid recommendation? Can you run mics>BB/pre>Tascam without issue, generally, and it's just the more "pro" pres that cause the problem, or...?
I think the other issue for the OP, and a tough one in general, is whether you go for the Church rig which is a quality rig that is competitive with most other stealth/small rigs that are under $1500, or whether you get a very inexpensive fullsize rigs with Studio Project C4s or something similar. I have little experience with those mics, but I wonder what views are as to whether they "hold up to the big boys" in the fullsize category as well as Church CA-14 are generally thought to in the stealth/small mics category.
One advantage of getting deck + littlebox + cheap/used fullsize mics is that you can upgrade just the mics and keep the rest of the gear chain. Whereas if you're CA-14>CA9100, that rig isn't really scalable to anything else. Not a good or a bad thing, just a thought.
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^^^ I have used the DR-07 with a CA-BB, CA-9100 and from many SBDs going line-in and have never had an issue with a signal being too hot. The DR-05 may require an attenuator for hot signals, but I haven't used it yet, so I will need to test. I paid $89.99 for the DR-05 so if I have to buy a $20 attenuator, it's not the end of the world. I am happy with my rig and don't foresee buying larger, more expensive gear in the near future. I believe the cheaper Tascam recorders may not hold their value well, but the Church Audio stuff should. I'm sure the M10 is a better device based on what I've read here, but if someone wants a complete rig with stand and accessories for under $500 it gets a little tougher to fit it in. He could go for M10 and one set of CA-14. ($129.00 w/free BB) and get there easily.
I mainly run the CA-14 cards>Ca-9100> Sony PCM D50 but I have taped with many combinations of my gear. taperjeff runs AKG 460>MixPre>DR-07 quite frequently, I believe. With very good results, IMO: http://www.archive.org/details/Yarn2010-12-04.akg460
My source of the same show with CA-14>CA-9100>PCM D50: http://www.archive.org/details/yarn2010-12-04.CA14.flac16
And a Schoeps source: http://www.archive.org/details/Yarn2010-12-04.Southern_Cafe_Music_Hall_Charlottesville_Va
All mics above were clamped to same stand. I prefer the AKG source, fwiw.
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^^ Great to know. Also a nice comp. The Schoeps and AKG are pretty close - the AKGs a bit less punchy than the Schoeps, as you'd expect. The 41s bring the vox up, but I think the bass is less smooth partly b/c of the tighter pattern.
For that matter, though, the 14s sound great, although a good bit thinner. On anything other than a pretty nice playback system or good pair of headphones, that could also mean they'll sound better to a lot of people.
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lowest price ever on a 24 bit deck >
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/734644-REG/Tascam_DR_03_DR_03_Portable_Digital_Audio.html
save money on the deck and get better mics !
(and buy a good used preamp)