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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: deadheadcorey on March 22, 2011, 04:40:06 AM
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Wanna get some church audio mics, but would like to hear opinions from other people about the best pattern to use when stealthing. Shows I'm gonna tape are inside and are loud rock bands.
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Pattern? If I am low profile I worry about getting a clear shot at the music. Binaural-ish, about head width.
I think he is asking what polar pattern (omni, cardioid, etc.) to use, not what mic config (ORTF, DIN, etc.) to use.
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I haven't stealthed in a long time, but I typically used cardioids at 90 degrees about 10cm apart. Got some great tapes with that configuration.
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Cards are definately the more verasatile and forgiving when stealthing, i gave up on the omnis long ago, seems they had there place but just found far more consistant and better recordings using the cards.
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I agree with the cards being the most versatile, I've used them 99.999% of the time in many locations from front row, stack taping and dfc fob and in many circumstances they have saved recordings from obtrusive crowds where omni's would have been bad news.
I've also been using the sub-card pattern and I really love the sound of them. You still get the benefits of the cards with a little of the benefits of the omni's, but without the drawbacks that full omni's can bring down upon you.......
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To be more specific, I have used Chris's CA-11 and CA-14 cards with great success. The CA-14's are larger, due to an integrated windscreen and definitely require a battery box or preamp, but I like them better. I often tape in the old refurbished movie theaters with concrete walls, and sitting amongst chatty fans. I find the omni's pick up more boominess from the room and more talk.
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AT831 cardiods, work excellent when you keep them steady and just above crowd. Work great from balcony's.
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AT831 cardiods, work excellent when you keep them steady and just above crowd. Work great from balcony's.
They are ok for a starter set but realy there are lots that are better: CA-11, CA-14, AT853's. AT933/934's, MM-HLSC-1's, and they really don't cost that much more at all
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Yes. CA-11 is the way to go...
It's only because I like to solder and experiment myself... Otherwise I would have bought CA-11's and achieved the same results since I used the same capsules.
Clipped on the collar (I use windtech clips), in a (about) 90 degree pattern: http://tinyurl.com/5spfgwj
It even works well if you put them UNDER the collar of a jacket using the fabric as a kind of windshield.
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Yes. CA-11 is the way to go...
It's only because I like to solder and experiment myself... Otherwise I would have bought CA-11's and achieved the same results since I used the same capsules.
Clipped on the collar (I use windtech clips), in a (about) 90 degree pattern: http://tinyurl.com/5spfgwj
It even works well if you put them UNDER the collar of a jacket using the fabric as a kind of windshield.
Think higher whenever body mounting mics, the higher the better, i used to collar mount mics but those recordings don't even come close to once i got them higher
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Think higher whenever body mounting mics, the higher the better, i used to collar mount mics but those recordings don't even come close to once i got them higher
Yep, I've got the same experience. But I don't like to wear a cap and have to keep my head still all the time, so I always look for a seat in the back of the venue :)
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I'll show you my stealth spot,...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)
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try this:
Get out there, try it. If it works, don't talk about it publicly.
Now back to the stealth spot,....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)
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Mounting mics on your head works fine when not moving your head. I have heard too many recordings with cards, close to the sound source, going out of phase from head movement. Completely wrecks what could have been a good recording.
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Personally I love omni's for loud rock shows, as long as you can get up close to the speakers.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)
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>Mounting mics on your head works fine when not moving your head. I have heard too many recordings with cards, close to the >sound source, going out of phase from head movement. Completely wrecks what could have been a good recording.
That's true, omni's are more forgiving with some head movement. However, I find it easier to control head movement than to control the "screamin' cheetah wheelies" that can surround you and ruin a recording even more than some phasing from cards. You can't control the crowd, but more times than not, the cards pattern have saved a recording that would have been ruined running omni's.
Of course, omni's can be real nice if you have a good crowd around you, but that's a crapshoot at best even taping openly.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)
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>But I don't like to wear a cap
I don't like it either, but I do it for concerts, the benefits far outweigh a couple/few hours of having to wear one. They can be removed after the show is over ;)
>and have to keep my head still all the time
You don't have to keep your head still "all" the time. I still move my head at times and stretch my neck, etc. I just do it between songs/intermissions/etc. where it doesn't affect anything. Again, the benefits of doing it for a couple/few hours at a concert far outweighs not doing it.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/hasselhoff.gif)
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Hypercards all the way
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I have used quality omnis (DPA 4061s) in a small hall well tuned for classical music, sitting in the absolute center of the absolute front row, among a quiet crowd, and still got too much room for my tastes. I much prefer cardiod mics (my CK930s are my current favorites). Regards where to mount your mics, avoid places where fabric can rub against them when checking recorder or making other movements.
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>still got too much room for my tastes. I much prefer cardiod mics
I've pretty much been strictly a cardioid user as I didn't care much for the bi-products of the omni's, too much room being one as you stated, but I've been getting to like the sub-cardioids alot as they give a little more of the good part of the omni feel while keeping the advantages of the normal cards.
Do the Beyer's offer a sub-card cap? There's not a ton of stealthy style mics that do offer that pattern I guess.
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I prefer omnis at loud shows because if the music is loud enough you won't hear chatter anyway. I also like the better bass response that omnis give you.
That said, I have made very good recordings using cards as well. It really depends on your preference.
Both patterns can have nice results, location is the key!
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Hypercards all the way
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Hypercards all the way
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Depending on far you are from the PA/stage, honestly. I think cards, hypers or omnis are pretty self explanatory.
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Hypercards all the way
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x3!!!! oh...wait...dangit