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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Brian E. on April 15, 2011, 02:48:54 PM
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Anyone have a solution? I run CA-14's > 9100 > R09HR, but sometimes if I can get a SBD feed and I think the recording will benefit, I'd like to be able to mix in maybe 25-50% SBD. I don't want to but an R-44 at $1K, I'd just like something that will let me input 4 channels and output 2 into my R09-HR.
Thanks :)
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UA-5 is a cheap solution for that scenario. The problem is that you can't fix any synch issues you might get.
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true, and that's also pretty bulky and complex. probably best to just get a zoom or something and run board into it, then sync later.
speaking of which, how do people sync stuff down to the millisecond? especially on different recorders with different start times?
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probably best to just get a zoom or something and run board into it, then sync later.
speaking of which, how do people sync stuff down to the millisecond? especially on different recorders with different start times?
Definitely easier and cheaper to have two recorders for aud and sbd, and sync later. For syncing, I try to get it as precise as possible using Vegas, typically using discrete sounds like cymbal, snare drum, or best yet, drum stick hits ("1,2,3,4...") to line them up. It definitely gets down to the sub-second level to align them perfectly.
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awesome. can you do this with Audacity?
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true, and that's also pretty bulky and complex. probably best to just get a zoom or something and run board into it, then sync later.
speaking of which, how do people sync stuff down to the millisecond? especially on different recorders with different start times?
the UA-5 is pretty small, its certainly smaller than the R-44. Its also not complex at all. The mic inputs are on the front panel (with phantom), and the AUX RCA outputs on the back can be used for four-channel input on the fly.
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true, and that's also pretty bulky and complex. probably best to just get a zoom or something and run board into it, then sync later.
speaking of which, how do people sync stuff down to the millisecond? especially on different recorders with different start times?
the UA-5 is pretty small, its certainly smaller than the R-44. Its also not complex at all. The mic inputs are on the front panel (with phantom), and the AUX RCA outputs on the back can be used for four-channel input on the fly.
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Anyone have a solution? I run CA-14's > 9100 > R09HR, but sometimes if I can get a SBD feed and I think the recording will benefit, I'd like to be able to mix in maybe 25-50% SBD. I don't want to but an R-44 at $1K, I'd just like something that will let me input 4 channels and output 2 into my R09-HR.
Thanks :)
Get a 1/8" male > dual 1/8" female cable and plug both SBD and CA sources into the female end and the male into your recorder. You won't be able to adjust how much of each source you get but it's quick, easy, and cheap.
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that would make one channnel mics and the other SBD, right?
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It sends the signal to both channels so you'd get an equal mix of SBD and mics on both channels. Not an ideal way but cheap and easy.
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Apparently the Russians are coming ???
Anyway, if you try to combine signals with a y-cable, you wll not like the results unless your mics are REAL close to the PA. You can use a second recorder and do time correction in post, but you have to do that EVERY time, which seems like it would be a pain. Recording 4 tracks is the way to go.
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You need to toss in some series resistance using the cable approach, otherwise the two sources will load each other with a probable large increase in distortion.
Absolutely! Distorted and out of sync. Sweet!
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Just get a Tascam DR2D. 200 bucks for 4 tracks with no clock drift issues like you'd get with 2 recorders.
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awesome. can you do this with Audacity?
You can align two sources in Audacity. Read the long thread in the sticky at the top of the "Computer Related Help" section of TS.com. I have to caution you that it's not really all that easy, especially if a show is on the longer side. There's math involved, which I've done before and still had things not sync. Dan and I were, for instance, trying to sync 6 stereo mic sources, from mics that were almost in the identical spot in the venue, from two of the same decks (Oade R-44s), and even with all the lining up and everything, the drift still seemed to occur... if you line up one point, another would get more "off".
Those were 2.5 hr shows though. For your normal rock show of 70 or so min, if you line up a cymbal hit and you start the recorders at the same time, you're 95% of the way there probably. Heck, I once did a show where I added in DPA 4061>littlebox>m10 to the 4 channels on my -44. I started both decks at the same time, and I didn't even have to shift the sources at all, as luck would have it.
But anyway, it's not that easy.
Since you have to spend money no matter what you do, I'd second the suggestion of the DR-2D. I haven't used it, but it appears to do what you'd need it to do. You'll still need SBD cables, of course. I personally just use some very long RCAs most of the time and have adapter tips for 1/4" and XLR. Most SBDs I deal with use RCAs, although better ones for bigger venues probably will not.
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thanks!
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Just get a Tascam DR2D. 200 bucks for 4 tracks with no clock drift issues like you'd get with 2 recorders.
This
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Just get a Tascam DR2D. 200 bucks for 4 tracks with no clock drift issues like you'd get with 2 recorders.
This
does this unit allow you to record 2 stereo Line In sources... or just 1 plus the built in Mics?
EDIT: doesn't look like it according to specs
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Just get a Tascam DR2D. 200 bucks for 4 tracks with no clock drift issues like you'd get with 2 recorders.
This
does this unit allow you to record 2 stereo Line In sources... or just 1 plus the built in Mics?
EDIT: doesn't look like it according to specs
Separate stereo files from the mic and line inputs.
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Just to clarify, mic INPUT as well as line input, not just internal mics. The mic in can accept a consumer line level signal but a pro signal would need attenuation.
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Just to clarify, mic INPUT as well as line input, not just internal mics. The mic in can accept a consumer line level signal but a pro signal would need attenuation.
so you can basically use a Littlebox > Line In and SBD RCA Out > Mic In... how would you set levels for each?
and can you record 2 separate audio files or are you limited to the "Mix" feature?
after I sold my 680, I've been using 2 M10s to record a second source the few times I have access off the SBD
and then having to deal with the drift in post... this would be alot easier
but then again I'm very unhappy with TEAC's customer service after the 680 debacle (sorry that's another thread)
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Just to clarify, mic INPUT as well as line input, not just internal mics. The mic in can accept a consumer line level signal but a pro signal would need attenuation.
so you can basically use a Littlebox > Line In and SBD RCA Out > Mic In... how would you set levels for each?
and can you record 2 separate audio files or are you limited to the "Mix" feature?
after I sold my 680, I've been using 2 M10s to record a second source the few times I have access off the SBD
and then having to deal with the drift in post... this would be alot easier
but then again I'm very unhappy with TEAC's customer service after the 680 debacle (sorry that's another thread)
It will record each source to a separate stereo file and they are both perfectly in sync. You'll plug one source into one input and the other source into the other.
The only minor downside is the line in source can't be adjusted on the fly. You have to set it before recording and you're stuck with that level until you stop recording. You can record in 24 bit and set your levels a few points low and amplify in post though.
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Just to clarify, mic INPUT as well as line input, not just internal mics. The mic in can accept a consumer line level signal but a pro signal would need attenuation.
so you can basically use a Littlebox > Line In and SBD RCA Out > Mic In... how would you set levels for each?
and can you record 2 separate audio files or are you limited to the "Mix" feature?
I would do (in fact, I do do) the reverse: SBD>line in and Littlebox > mic in. With Audix Micro mics and "amplified bluegrass" type shows, I have the mic in set to low sensitivity and 70 (which seems to be the same levelwise as line in at 100) and have levels on the Littlebox around noon. Line in at 100 works for most RCA out borads, quarter inch or XLRs I find often run hotter so I's set levels at 90 and either try to get a sense of levels during sound check or put an inline attenuator there just in case.
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I would do (in fact, I do do) the reverse: SBD>line in and Littlebox > mic in. With Audix Micro mics and "amplified bluegrass" type shows, I have the mic in set to low sensitivity and 70 (which seems to be the same levelwise as line in at 100) and have levels on the Littlebox around noon. Line in at 100 works for most RCA out boards, quarter inch or XLRs I find often run hotter so I's set levels at 90 and either try to get a sense of levels during sound check or put an inline attenuator there just in case.
The only minor downside is the line in source can't be adjusted on the fly. You have to set it before recording and you're stuck with that level until you stop recording.
since you can't adjust your Line In levels while recording both sources...
wouldn't it make more sense to use your Littlebox > Line In and use the gains to control your levels?
and can you monitor both sources while recording simultaneously?
BTW... sorry Brian, for the threadjack ;D
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No, good Q's Darby, because Ive been wondering the exact same thing ??? :)
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thanks for all the posting, will read it when I get a chance
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since you can't adjust your Line In levels while recording both sources...
wouldn't it make more sense to use your Littlebox > Line In and use the gains to control your levels?
and can you monitor both sources while recording simultaneously?
I guess in many cases it might make sense to do it that way, except that a really hot board feed will be more than the mic in can handle but I've never encountered a situation where the Littlebox at minimum gain would overload it. In general I try to set my levels right/conservatively in the first place and not mess with them during a show, so the lack of line in level adjustments when in dual recording mode is a non-issue to me.
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So with the Tascam DR2D, would it possible to do this -
CA-11 > CA-9000 > DR2D (mic in)
SBD > DR2d (line in)
To create one track mixed together?
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since you can't adjust your Line In levels while recording both sources...
wouldn't it make more sense to use your Littlebox > Line In and use the gains to control your levels?
and can you monitor both sources while recording simultaneously?
I guess in many cases it might make sense to do it that way, except that a really hot board feed will be more than the mic in can handle but I've never encountered a situation where the Littlebox at minimum gain would overload it. In general I try to set my levels right/conservatively in the first place and not mess with them during a show, so the lack of line in level adjustments when in dual recording mode is a non-issue to me.
for an RCA out on a SBD you can set the level out with no worries and I prefer to have control over my levels
So with the Tascam DR2D, would it possible to do this -
CA-11 > CA-9000 > DR2D (mic in)
SBD > DR2d (line in)
To create one track mixed together?
I still believe it would be easier to go SBD > Mic In Low setting because you can adjust your Mic In on the unit while recording
and use your CA-9000 > Line In so you can adjust your preamp's levels because you cannot adjust your Line In on the unit while recording
that will create 2 separate stereo tracks you can then line up in post to create a matrix... not sure from your post if that's what you meant
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Thanks for the info, that seems to be what i'm looking for. I've never mixed sources before so that would be the only thing I really need to figure out.