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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: ashevillain on June 28, 2011, 11:55:19 PM
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I just noticed that there is a NOLA Wide ORTF bar that is 27cm @ 110°. I was always under the impression it isn't really a standardized configuration...is there a standard?
Can it be any other variations?
1. > 17cm @ 110°
2. 17cm @ > 110°
3. any combination > 17cm @ > 110°
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Many of our configs are not 'standard.' DINa for example is almost exclusive to the taping community and hardly known, if at all, by most professional audio engineers. Jerry Bruck looked at me like I an alien when I asked him if he had any thoughts on that config.
Any config is fine to use so long as the results are what you're looking for. I have not heard any recordings labeled as wide ORTF, but believe blee had his mk22s on one of these bars in the rig pictures section. Would love to hear some good subcard tapes with this setup.
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Would love to hear some good subcard tapes with this setup.
I think this is where it would really shine; subcards up front in the impact zone. Might be able to get excellent results with just straight cards, dunno.
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"Wide ORTF" originated with the Schoeps STC22g (the original Schoeps ORTF bar for the mk22's) I beleive Bruck/Satz helped push this through
NOLA ORTF bars are copies of the original Schoeps bars
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/stc
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"Wide ORTF" originated with the Schoeps STC22g (the original Schoeps ORTF bar for the mk22's) I beleive Bruck/Satz helped push this through
NOLA ORTF bars are copies of the original Schoeps bars
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/stc
Inspired by maybe, but Louie went for 27cm, while the original 22g bars are only 21cm.
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from the Schoeps link referenced above, these specs:
ORTF Mounting Bar STC 4g, STC 22g
ColetteCCM
STC 4g
Distance between the microphones 170 mm
Angle between the microphones 110 °
Recording angle with MK 4 or CCM 4: 95 °
STC 22g
Distance between the microphones 210 mm
Angle between the microphones 110 °
Recording angle with MK 22 or CCM 22: ca. 100 °
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Different methods have different amounts of specificity in the way they're defined. With "X/Y" for example, any desired pattern of microphone can be used with any desired angle between their main axes, as long as both microphones are directional, have the same pattern as each other, and are essentially coincident in the horizontal plane. The ORTF method, on the other hand, has an extremely specific definition, and if you vary it, it's no longer ORTF.
The ORTF method was invented using Schoeps microphones of the M 221 series, back in the vacuum-tube era. The ORTF (a/k/a Radio France) was always one of Schoeps' most important customers and still is today. When the "Colette" series of solid-state mikes was introduced back in the 1970s, an ORTF mounting accessory called the STC (for two cardioid capsules on Colette cables) was soon introduced. Then they introduced a single-body stereo microphone called the MSTC with the same configuration. I bought serial number 012 of that model and used it for many years.
Schoeps offers stereo bars based on the STC, but designed for their MK 21 and MK 22 capsules or equivalent CCM compact microphones. Of course the ORTF method was the point of departure for these, and the stereophonic recording angles that result from these setups were chosen to be the same as that of ORTF, or just a bit wider (on the assumption that one might mike a bit more closely with the less directive capsules). But there are no specific names that are at all widely accepted for those setups. I think Schoeps' literature may say something like "reminiscent of ORTF" somewhere, but that's as close as they ought to get IMO.
--best regards
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"Wide ORTF" originated with the Schoeps STC22g (the original Schoeps ORTF bar for the mk22's) I beleive Bruck/Satz helped push this through
NOLA ORTF bars are copies of the original Schoeps bars
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/stc
Thanks. This is the info I was looking for. I was thinking that 27cm was too wide.
As for samples, do a search here...there are plenty of recordings made with Wide ORTF. I just did it myself last night onstage for an instrumental trio. Stand DFC onstage, electric bass on extreme left, dobro on extreme right and drums/percussion in the middle set back a few feet from the other two. I knew that if I ran something with a narrow angle I'd get way too much drums. So I spread the angle out but didn't have time to play with the vert bar to get down to 17cm...I ended up just over 20cm so I'm gonna call it Wide ORTF. I think this is one of the finest onstage recordings I've ever made...nice stereo image. The drums are still just ever so slightly overpowering but still sounds great.
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http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=540391
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I plan on buying mk22 or mk21 and running them wide ortf onstage or very close fob :)