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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: achalsey on September 09, 2011, 05:17:09 AM
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...especially on a multi track recording where some other stereo image can be added?
I've been messing around with four channel recordings recently (usually, but not always, sbd + onstage cards XY) and have found that often one mic sounds significantly better due to stage setup and available places to set the mics so have frequently just doubled the better channel and gotten rid of the stereo track.
Mainly since I pretty much only listen back on cheap ear buds (I'm not at all an audiophile) I was curious to know if anyone had any opinions, or if anyone else does this in a pinch or if anyone using hifi equipment would frown upon this.
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I have several 4 channel recordings that are just 3 channels, although usually it's the SBD and not the AUD that's the problem (some SBDs I patch out of only give a mono feed).
What is "wrong" with the one mic in your mix? That seems like a placement issue if nothing else. Have you tried not using XY and maybe doing ORTF if you're onstage?
Another alternative I like, if you have this issue, is you can make two mono mixdowns but balance them differently, so that the left channel is, say, 75% left channel, 25% right channel and the right channel is 25% left channel, 75% right channel. This gives you the feel of a stereo mix but lessens the discordance between the two channels, since they are blended together a bit.
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I have several 4 channel recordings that are just 3 channels, although usually it's the SBD and not the AUD that's the problem (some SBDs I patch out of only give a mono feed).
What is "wrong" with the one mic in your mix? That seems like a placement issue if nothing else. Have you tried not using XY and maybe doing ORTF if you're onstage?
Another alternative I like, if you have this issue, is you can make two mono mixdowns but balance them differently, so that the left channel is, say, 75% left channel, 25% right channel and the right channel is 25% left channel, 75% right channel. This gives you the feel of a stereo mix but lessens the discordance between the two channels, since they are blended together a bit.
agreed. have a sample of all 4 tracks? Maybe we can figure out whats off.
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Its definitely just placement. I've been setting up on small stages were there are often awkwardly spaced out amps and drums to get an even mix in, and especially with some female lead singers, I'll set up as centered as possible, in between the two middle monitors, one of which the singer is having her vocals blasted through so I'll pick up a lot on one channel and it'll sound totally off balance. Often as well one channel will simply just sound better having picked up a better range of amps/vocals than the other.
I know its 'what sounds best to you' which is why I've been doing it (and because I'm just kind of lazy), but I guess I'm just wondering if there are any other solutions when this happens, because my method seems like the lazy poor mans way out. The differently mixed mono tracks sounds interesting, I'll definitely try that out next time.
I'm also pretty limited for height at the moment due to my cheap DIY stand so that might be one the major issues. I haven't tried ORTF yet either...
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Sounds to me here like you might want to try what I recommended - mix down two blended mono channels that mix in a little of each other's signals.
I'd think if you have an SBD feed it'd balance some of that out, but maybe not.
In this situation you describe, ORTF might make it worse instead of better, since it provides a wide field with a lot of separation.
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This is also why I do not slavishly follow XY, ORTF or any other particular pattern when setting up mics on stage or even stage lip. It really depends more on the placement of the gear on stage, and the musicians than any particular mic pattern. If the guitar player is going to be directly between your mic and his amp, then it is going to constantly change, as he moves in and out of the way. When possible, I split my mics on separate stands or clamps, so that I can get a clear shot at the sound sources that I want. An up front and center drum kit will just kill an otherwise great recording if set up DFC. You don't get to arrange the stage set up, but you can arrange your mics (usually).
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This is also why I do not slavishly follow XY, ORTF or any other particular pattern when setting up mics on stage or even stage lip. It really depends more on the placement of the gear on stage, and the musicians than any particular mic pattern. If the guitar player is going to be directly between your mic and his amp, then it is going to constantly change, as he moves in and out of the way. When possible, I split my mics on separate stands or clamps, so that I can get a clear shot at the sound sources that I want. An up front and center drum kit will just kill an otherwise great recording if set up DFC. You don't get to arrange the stage set up, but you can arrange your mics (usually).
This is my philosophy as well. I make frequent 4-track recordings and with a mono sbd I'll get 3 mics onstage micing amps/drums as individually (or grouped) as I can. With a stereo sbd I'll get 2 mics onstage to either side. That would be Schoeps CMC4/MK41 caps. The stereo you can get through that is amazing. Anything DFC is going to have sound blocked unless the music is all acoustic.