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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: cjb on October 17, 2011, 05:38:53 PM

Title: weak link in very limited recording setup?
Post by: cjb on October 17, 2011, 05:38:53 PM

Hello! I'm recording my symphonic bands rehearsals for later review and would like to get the the best quality I can get with very limited equipment and budget. I'm almost completely new to recording and don't really know where to start. (I have looked at some tutorials, but they tend to focus more on quality recordings rather than cheap-and-dirty ones).

Setup:
* Sony ECM-DS70P Electret Condenser Stereo Microphone
* phantom power: Silent Brass headphone amp
(http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-SB59C-Silent-Trombone-System/dp/B003B1N2N2/ref=pd_cp_MI_1)
* recorder: laptop. built-in sound card; mic/line-in input. audacity.
* mixing board: none
* cables: simple no-name mini sterojack double-male connectors
* location: band rehearsal space (dampened walls). mic is attached to a music stand right behind the conductor's head.

The quality is okayish, but the dynamic range isn't enough (there's very occasional clipping and the quiet passages are too quiet) and there' some distortion whenever the volume changes dramatically. The mic also seems to be too close because the woodwinds are much louder than the brass, but I can't move it any further away.

Which component is most likely the weakest link in this setup? In other words, if I can only upgrade one component, which should it be? My guess is that it's the sound card because I've heard that the mic input will often cause distortion when that volume changes. Should I get a USB mic interface, like the Blue Icicle? Are there any computer settings I can change to help the quality?

Thanks for your time!
-cj

Title: Re: weak link in very limited recording setup?
Post by: acidjack on October 18, 2011, 10:44:36 AM

I don't do the type of recording that you do, but I would think the mic is your weak link.

What is your budget? 

For $150 or less, you could add significantly higher quality mics, and even a small preamp or 9V power supply, that would allow you to significantly improve your recordings running into the laptop line-in.

I defer to others as to what improvement could be had from a sound card/usb interface.  I never record on laptops myself, so that part I do not know.

It's also worth pointing out that for $100 or so you could purchase a simple SD recorder with built-in mics that probably sound better than the Sony, and probably has better preamps than your built-in soundcard.  I can't believe I am recommending a Zoom product, but their little H1 http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-H1-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B003QKBVYK/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1318949042&sr=1-1 could do the trick.  Under $100, very easy to use, and supposedly Zoom's internal mics are pretty good.

Title: Re: weak link in very limited recording setup?
Post by: twatts (pants are so over-rated...) on October 18, 2011, 01:21:27 PM

Talk to moke, he has extensive experience taping orchestral music...

First improvement you can make is to get a better mic...

Terry

Title: Re: weak link in very limited recording setup?
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on October 18, 2011, 02:03:09 PM

I'm pretty sure the unanimous response is going to be mics. A mic pre-amp would also be a wise investment. Your recorder is fine no need to upgrade for now, but like Acidjack said you could probably buy a $100 recorder that will do just as good of a job as a nice soundcard, but it also records and is A LOT smaller than a laptop, and much easier to power if you don't have access to AC.

You need to give us an idea what you mean by a limited budget. Depending on how low that is, your best bet may be to save your pennies and just deal with what you have for now.

Title: Re: weak link in very limited recording setup?
Post by: Gutbucket on October 18, 2011, 02:32:59 PM

Weakest link is your mic position.
Optimial location beats optimal gear every time.

Quote from: cjb on October 17, 2011, 05:38:53 PM

...The mic also seems to be too close because the woodwinds are much louder than the brass, but I can't move it any further away.

Spending money on mics won't fix that, only relocating your mic position will.  Why can't you pull the mic farther back?  Could you do so by mounting the mic in some unothodox way? Can you go significantly higher if not farther back? Moving the mic farther away will also help reduce dynamics so the gear you have can cope with it better (which is something that could be solved by using gear).  Is there a wall close behind the conductor?

Title: Re: weak link in very limited recording setup?
Post by: cjb on October 19, 2011, 11:37:59 AM

Thanks!

With regards to the mic position, it's already back up against the wall in front of the band. The only way it can go now is up. Maybe I can find a ladder somewhere. Fortunately, someone else in my band has a fancier mic, so I'll experiment with that. (Also, my budget is $100).


-cj

Title: Re: weak link in very limited recording setup?
Post by: Gutbucket on October 19, 2011, 11:41:05 AM

Get some small lavalier type omnis (Countryman B3, DPA 4060, etc) and tape them to the wall behind the conductor, spaced 2' to 4' apart.  The boundary mounting technique will help with the section balances.