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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: twoodruff on December 21, 2011, 01:22:49 PM
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I have narrowed my search for a recorder to the Tascam HS-P82 and the edirol R-44. I have questions.
Those that have the erirol r-44, do you run stock pre and a>d? What is your opinion of them? Given the opportunity would you buy again? The price difference is around $2500. Is the tascam worth the extra cash?
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louie just bought the tascam. he can give you details on it.
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guess I am more looking for input on the r44. MOst edirol products I have seen have a cheap feel to them, is the R-44 a solid piece of gear?
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It's plastic and was smaller than I thought it would be. Very solid performer with a very small learning curve. I ran pre's in front of both channels but it sounded ok on it's own. That said the Tascam unit would offer way more features and has better sounding pre's out of the box. BUT...you could run two R-44's with a Sound devices USBPre2 to keep them in sync for less money. For me I'd buy an eight track. as for four track decks the R-44 would be my only choice.
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I have narrowed my search for a recorder to the Tascam HS-P82 and the edirol R-44. I have questions.
Those that have the erirol r-44, do you run stock pre and a>d? What is your opinion of them? Given the opportunity would you buy again? The price difference is around $2500. Is the tascam worth the extra cash?
I love my R44 and use an external pre-amp (Sonosax) and a/d (Sound Devices USBPre2). I've never had any issues with mine and don't know of anyone to have reliability issues with the R44.
IMO: If you are planning on running an external pre-amp and only using two channels for mics (+ two channels for SBDs), I'd buy a R44. You can get an external a/d (AD2K, Mytek, USBPre2) if you dislike the stock a/d for less than 1K.
If you plan on normally running atleast 4 channels of mics and no external pres, I'd buy theTascam HS-P82.
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I run an Oade Mod R-44 with a variety of pres in front of it, including the USBpre2 which is probably my favorite. Although it is plastic, I find it to be very rugged feeling. I also find it to be highly reliable, and the footprint is small. I've even "stealthed" with it (where a door search wasn't involved).
I'm not really sure anything was wrong with the stock pres and I have great pulls with both. I don't always run an external pre and am happy not to when I want a smaller gear bag.
The Tascam I have not used, but things that are obviously true about it are:
-- It is significantly larger
-- It is made by Tascam
-- It has 4 more channels
I'd love to have a compact 8-channel deck, but to me, for the rare times I'd need that, the -44 + syncing with the USBPre2 to a second deck is about as good an option, and means my bag is lighter the other 95% of the time I don't need more than 8 channels.
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I've run my R-44 for over 3 years and have nothing but praise for it. I'd buy it again in a heartbeat as I don't think there's anything else with its dependability and capabilities in that price range. The outer case is plastic but it has a very solid feel to it. While I don't abuse my gear, I don't exactly baby it either and the R-44 has never hiccuped except due to user error (read: me). Mine is stock, no Oade or Busman mods, I've never run a separate A/D or pre in front of it mainly for simplicity's sake and, in my opinion, I think the stock pre's can sound great and are very capable. At the risk of looking like a shameless plug, there are plenty of samples of it in action HERE (http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=johnny-fried-chicken-boy).
That said, if you have the need for 8 channels and don't mind dropping the extra ~3k, the Tascam HS-P82 appears to be the way to go. Looks like a cool machine with a lot of bells & whistles. The next least expensive 8-track portable deck, I believe, is the Sound Devices 788t and that's around $6500.
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In the $6.5k range you do have a few more options
Aeta 4minx
Sonosax sx-r4
For $5k there is the sonosax minir82
Also zaxcom nomad may be worth looking at as well
You can pick up used 744s for about $3k
But at $3.5k the hs-p82 is hard to beat - you prob don't need a m148 with it's pres though
And I am pretty sure the usm has trano outs so you should get some warmth there
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the tascam is $3500.
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The R44 is plastic, but it must have a pretty robust metal frame inside since it seems very robust.
Overall, the R44 is very sturdy and reliable, very easy to use, and a rock-solid recorder you can count on to get the job done. I had the Oade mod R44 and it seemed fine as an all-in-one recorder, though I generally used it with a V3 in front.
I have no problem recommending it for a taper's recorder. I replaced mine with a Tascam DR680 since I wanted to play around a bit with >4ch, but then ditched it to concentrate mainly on 2ch recording. The 680 has some good features and extra channels, but given its history I'd have a harder time recommending it. The R44 though -- go for it.
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I've had my R-44 since they came out and it is stock, no mods. I dropped mine onto a concrete floor and it only made a slight ding. I've run it inside and outside, in dusty conditions many times and in the rain (covered of course). It has worked like a champ since day one. People seem to have three main problems with them: 1: hooking up an external battery with polarity crossed 2: not liking the 6db jumps in analog gain 3: Some also complain about not being able to see the meters clearly. I don't have a problem with the meters personally. I've read where some people worried about the flat spots. You can not hear that small flat spot so don't worry about it. The 6db jumps are good in a way in that the recorder makes a slight microsecond flat spot in the wave form so you can actually find where the adjustment was made if you need to. Oh, some people have had trouble with certain SD cards in the R-44 but I never have.
I have to ask, why get a modded R-44 then run a preamp in front of it? This makes no sense to me. The preamps that come with the R-44 may not be as good as say, a Grace V3, but they aren't bad either.
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I've had my R-44 since they came out and it is stock, no mods. I dropped mine onto a concrete floor and it only made a slight ding. I've run it inside and outside, in dusty conditions many times and in the rain (covered of course). It has worked like a champ since day one. People seem to have three main problems with them: 1: hooking up an external battery with polarity crossed 2: not liking the 6db jumps in analog gain 3: Some also complain about not being able to see the meters clearly. I don't have a problem with the meters personally. I've read where some people worried about the flat spots. You can not hear that small flat spot so don't worry about it. The 6db jumps are good in a way in that the recorder makes a slight microsecond flat spot in the wave form so you can actually find where the adjustment was made if you need to. Oh, some people have had trouble with certain SD cards in the R-44 but I never have.
I have to ask, why get a modded R-44 then run a preamp in front of it? This makes no sense to me. The preamps that come with the R-44 may not be as good as say, a Grace V3, but they aren't bad either.
thanks for the input, i dont think i am going to get a modded r-44.
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If you get an R-44 I'd recommend getting an external DVD battery to power it through long shows. It will run a pretty long time on the AA batteries internally but why risk it? Just make sure the cable from the external battery to the R-44 is the right polarity. There are folks here on the Tapers Section who can make you one if you aren't sure you want to do it yourself. BTW, the R-44 will fail over to the internal batteries seamlessly. Also like most (if not all) digital recorders, the file size limit is 2GB. However it will automatically start a new file with no time lost.
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If you get an R-44 I'd recommend getting an external DVD battery to power it through long shows. It will run a pretty long time on the AA batteries internally but why risk it? Just make sure the cable from the external battery to the R-44 is the right polarity. There are folks here on the Tapers Section who can make you one if you aren't sure you want to do it yourself. BTW, the R-44 will fail over to the internal batteries seamlessly. Also like most (if not all) digital recorders, the file size limit is 2GB. However it will automatically start a new file with no time lost.
I am geting an R-44, made up my mind last night. Can you or someone show me the right external DVD battery to get?
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I don't see the exact ones I bought a couple of years ago but it will be something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Portable-DVD-External-Battery-9V-2600mAh-23Wh-/360177858994?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item53dc45f9b2
There might be something better out now, I don't know. The R-44 can accept a fairly wide range of voltages, but watch that polarity. Edirol (AKA Roland) seems to like to make their DC input jack the reverse of the rest of the planet for some reason.
Team R-44 here at the Taper's Section can answer any questions you might have about any quirks.
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[typed while you guys were posting, throwing it out there anyway]
Hey Trey,
I also run a R-44 (Oade mod) and am very happy with it. It's a solid machine and I have no reservations at all recommending one. It's simple, relatively rugged and just plain works without worry in any condition I've used it in. I can't speak for the quality of the stock preamps since I bought mine from Oade pre-modded and don't feel I usually need an external preamp. I do use a V3 sometimes but rarely into the R-44 simply because I didn't feel I gain enough from doing so and can keep the rig small and tight without the external preamp. Like 'galoot I use 9V DVD batteries with a reversed polarity connection cable at the recorder end- sleeve positive, center pin is ground.
I ran 8 channels last night into my DR-680 (it's not modded) by inputting two channels digitally from the V3. That's 6 channels through the onbard 680 preamps + 2 digital in from the V3. I'm also very happy with the DR-680 and really dig having the ability to record 8 synced channels in one small, inexpensive machine. It's menus and operation is more complex than the R-44, the switches on top can be more easily accidentally knocked and there is the well known powering related problems some have had with them when using other than the recommended voltage for outboard power. I've had no problems with mine, and can recommend it for those who need 6 or 8 channels on limited budget, but it isn't as simple and fool proof as the R-44. Stock preamps are fine and quiet enough, and seem more or less on par with those in the Oade modded R-44, though I haven't compared the two critically.
I haven't used the Tascam HS-P82, but it looks like a somewhat more professionally oriented machine positioned to be less costly than SoundDevices, Nagra, and the ohter big players. If you need 8 channels regularly, that may be the more attractive option.
I think it really comes down to how many channels you want/neeed.
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Here's a sample ADK-tl (Hyper)>R-44 (my unmodded unit) + board>R-44
http://home.comcast.net/~cybergaloot/AvisBerry-2009-11-15-matrix-AKG-10.wav
Ignore that the file says AKG, I goofed on labeling. BTW, this was recorded in a horrible venue, massive room reverb.
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I don't see the exact ones I bought a couple of years ago but it will be something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Portable-DVD-External-Battery-9V-2600mAh-23Wh-/360177858994?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item53dc45f9b2
There might be something better out now, I don't know. The R-44 can accept a fairly wide range of voltages, but watch that polarity. Edirol (AKA Roland) seems to like to make their DC input jack the reverse of the rest of the planet for some reason.
Team R-44 here at the Taper's Section can answer any questions you might have about any quirks.
Go with a 5400mAh or 6000mAh one that will run the R44 for 10 hours or so.
Examples: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=dvd+battery+5400&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7907595887575868810&sa=X&ei=8WDzTuHrIery2QWl4tykAg&ved=0CIABEPMCMAE#
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who can make said polarity issue cable?
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Go with a 5400mAh or 6000mAh one that will run the R44 for 10 hours or so.
Examples: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=dvd+battery+5400&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7907595887575868810&sa=X&ei=8WDzTuHrIery2QWl4tykAg&ved=0CIABEPMCMAE#
I get about the same run time with those batts and four channels of phantom on, but not a huge current draw.
Ted, or any of the cable makers can make you a power cable. I just soldered the right sized plug from RadioShack onto one of the cables that usually come with the DVD batteries.
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Go with a 5400mAh or 6000mAh one that will run the R44 for 10 hours or so.
Examples: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=dvd+battery+5400&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7907595887575868810&sa=X&ei=8WDzTuHrIery2QWl4tykAg&ved=0CIABEPMCMAE#
I get about the same run time with those batts and four channels of phantom on, but not a huge current draw.
Ted, or any of the cable makers can make you a power cable. I just soldered the right sized plug from RadioShack onto one of the cables that usually come with the DVD batteries.
I never throw out wallwarts so I just dug around in the box until I found the right sized ends, cut them off the wallwarts with enough cable left and soldered the wires together making sure they 'crossed.'
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Go with a 5400mAh or 6000mAh one that will run the R44 for 10 hours or so.
Examples: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=dvd+battery+5400&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7907595887575868810&sa=X&ei=8WDzTuHrIery2QWl4tykAg&ved=0CIABEPMCMAE#
I get about the same run time with those batts and four channels of phantom on, but not a huge current draw.
Ted, or any of the cable makers can make you a power cable. I just soldered the right sized plug from RadioShack onto one of the cables that usually come with the DVD batteries.
If you go the DVD battery route (use one myself and get very long runtimes with 4 channels of phantom), I'd echo the recommendation that you should get one with a capacity of at least 5400 mAh. The price point seems about the same for all of them nowadays (~$50) so you might as well read the specs and get the highest capacity.
Ted's the man for a Battery>R-44 cable. He does great work. If you're in a pinch, you can always go to Radio Shack and get an adapt-a-plug cable with the proper tips. Just make sure you have the polarity correct. Ted put together a great thread with external powering specs for a lot of different devices HERE (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=150794.0).
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Back when I got my DVD batteries they were going for about $10 each on eBay. Those are long gone I'm sure. All I saw was the one I posted the link to.
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Also, if running external preamps, give the Tascam DR2D a chance. It runs for about 4-5 hrs recording to all 4 channels, and is dirt cheap :)
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Also, if running external preamps, give the Tascam DR2D a chance. It runs for about 4-5 hrs recording to all 4 channels, and is dirt cheap :)
I dig mine too, but that's a different class of gear entirely then an R-44, DR-680 or especially an HS-P82. ;)
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Even if you aren't running 4 channels the R-44 is a great recorder. V3>R44 is easy and sweet.
Although M148>m10 would be sweet as well.
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Yes, the r44 is plastic but so are most laptops and so are many stereo systems in nice cars. Sadly, I have not had a real good opportunity to use my r44 to record music since I've been very busy with school and family. I have no idea how the new price on this recorder has remained to be very high even though it is many years old. Sometimes I wish the r44 could do more (or at least have more menu options) but that would take away from its simplicity and how quick it is to start recording.
No recorder is perfect but the r44 is close to it.
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Trey, I'll just add my belated vote to the other people here--I've been using an R-44 as my main 2- and 4-channel recorder for a couple of years now, using internal or external batteries or AC powering, and have never had any kind of operational problems with it at all. Just absolutely none. It's raised my estimation of Roland as a brand, at least for the high end of their line.
I have no complaint with the sound quality of the recorder's preamps, but then I'm not generally someone who can go on and on talking about the sound of preamps--for me they only need to boost a signal without adding noise, distortion or coloration that I can hear. For opera and recital gigs I use a Grace V3 for the front two channels and feed the result in via S/P-DIF, but that's mainly for the more easily readable (for me, anyway) metering on the V3.
I even recorded a couple of business meetings with the built-in mikes, so that works, too, when necessary.
--best regards
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Also, if running external preamps, give the Tascam DR2D a chance. It runs for about 4-5 hrs recording to all 4 channels, and is dirt cheap :)
I dig mine too, but that's a different class of gear entirely then an R-44, DR-680 or especially an HS-P82. ;)
Yes, I def agree, but he said ANY 4chan recorders ;)
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Also, if running external preamps, give the Tascam DR2D a chance. It runs for about 4-5 hrs recording to all 4 channels, and is dirt cheap :)
How does one do this? Can you meter both the mic in and the line in at the same time? From the pictures on the Tascam site, it seems like the 4 channel mode is really for the built in microphones.
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Also, if running external preamps, give the Tascam DR2D a chance. It runs for about 4-5 hrs recording to all 4 channels, and is dirt cheap :)
How does one do this? Can you meter both the mic in and the line in at the same time? From the pictures on the Tascam site, it seems like the 4 channel mode is really for the built in microphones.
Push a button to switch back and forth from metering the line-input to the metering the mic-input. Mic input can be either the internal mics or the external mic-input jack.
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Also, if running external preamps, give the Tascam DR2D a chance. It runs for about 4-5 hrs recording to all 4 channels, and is dirt cheap :)
How does one do this? Can you meter both the mic in and the line in at the same time? From the pictures on the Tascam site, it seems like the 4 channel mode is really for the built in microphones.
Push a button to switch back and forth from metering the line-input to the metering the mic-input. Mic input can be either the internal mics or the external mic-input jack.
Bingo!