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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Om_Audio on December 29, 2011, 05:44:25 PM
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Hey everyone- been recording on and off for 15 or so years and need a new recorder and need some info you can't get from manuals and reviews to inform my decision. (Mainly first 2 items in "need" list)
I started with micro cassette (and still listen to awful recording of guitarist Mike Miller and Chad Wackerman)
Then MD (bought decent binaurals at same time)
Then M-Audio Microtrack 24/96
Now Zoom H1
The Zoom has some awful drawbacks and I need to replace.
I need:
-sequential naming even if device media is erased
-date created tag in file headers (not just modified)
-ability to record high volume sources without additional hardware
-good, quiet, built in stereo mics
-sub $300 price range
I want:
-ability to drive binaurals properly if needed
-metronome/multi tracking
-small
-solid history of performance (no freezing, etc.)
-speaker
-etc. ;)
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Forget the speaker, pretty much useless on most recorders.
What kind of internal mics, card or omni?
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ya I hear ya.
I suppose card mics as I prefer to control direction of source- like I can hear a sweet spot with my ears in the room and go from there- one reason I still like the binaurals sometimes- I tape them up where the sound is often better and easy to place
thanks
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Sony PCM-M10
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Sony PCM-M10
That's a surprise. ::)
;D
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Sony PCM-M10
That's a surprise. ::)
;D
Hey its the perfect recorder for him :P ;D
Also, the Tascam DR2D is a contender because he wants a metronome, and for $125.00 its in his budget as well!
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PCM-M10 has omnis. Not that that's a bad thing in my opinion. Binaural mics were probably omnis
The PCM-M10 names each file with the recording date and 00, 01 for each recording made that day. If you then divide a recording into tracks, there is yet another number added to keep them in sequence. Those filenames don't change unless you change them. So if I understand correctly, that meets your "sequential naming" criterion. And the dates are in the filenames--I don't know what goes on in the file headers.
You might also investigate the Roland R-05.
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-ability to record high volume sources without additional hardware
with that point the choose of recorders aren't tgreat. If you find a Marantz recorder which usually have 5 Volt PIP on the standard 1.8 Jack you can successfully run mics without external pre or battery box. The PMD620 is very small if you need small size. Otherwise pmd 66X.
But some users report the internal preamp of the PCM-M10 is also very good. soem users run CA11 Mics, CAFS mics (with low sens mod for high SPL) successful on the unit. But not mics like CA14 or similar they really need 9V Power to run successful on high SPL.
so your choice is. You've guessed it the PCM-M10. Marantz PMD-620 only used ones. new to expensive compared to the sony.
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The PCM-M10 names each file with the recording date and 00, 01 for each recording made that day.
One annoyance I have with M10 is that the file-naming is completely independent between the internal memory and memory card. So I have occasionally had a situation where the first set (taped to internal memory) has exactly the same name as the second set (taped to miniSD card).
Not a huge issue but occasionally gets annoying during file transfer plus the need to rename one of the files can lead to confusion as to what is a raw file and what has been subject to processing.
There may well be a workaround here - please enlighten me if so.
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Well, you could change the clock date between sets. ::)
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Or make an initial short dummy recording on the card before starting the second set...
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Or whisper into your mics "set 1" and "set 2" and so on and so on :P ;D
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The PCM-M10 names each file with the recording date and 00, 01 for each recording made that day.
One annoyance I have with M10 is that the file-naming is completely independent between the internal memory and memory card. So I have occasionally had a situation where the first set (taped to internal memory) has exactly the same name as the second set (taped to miniSD card).
Not a huge issue but occasionally gets annoying during file transfer plus the need to rename one of the files can lead to confusion as to what is a raw file and what has been subject to processing.
There may well be a workaround here - please enlighten me if so.
No solution, but 16 or 32 GB cards alleviate the issue.
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Thanks for all the replies thus far! Very helpful indeed-
1- sequential naming with created date in header is a MUST and also sequential naming to continue after card/memory is erased- PCM-M10 still not clear on these points- date created in header is less important if file naming continues after erasing.
2-Marantz PMD620 is out- this Amazon review comment mirrors experience with my M-Audio (2 diff units and diff CF cards) and is maddening "Here's the problem: it fails to properly record once every 40 or 50 files. It doesn't record header info for the files which renders them useless. "
3-DR-2d looks good- inexpensive- and dual record feature would be useful- I record mostly myself at home playing elec and acoustic guitar and more than a few times have had clipping issues (I know- set levels correct- but on the fly inspiration leaves little room for tech acuity)
4-might end up with 2 recorders as a mutitracking unit like Boss DR-80 is VERY enticing for me personally (I play bass and drums and guitar and like odd time signatures which the BR-80 supports via midi files)
Cheers-
O
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just curious but what's the big need for sequential file naming?
Also, are you not planning on using external mics/preamp at this point unless it's for binaural mics?
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just curious but what's the big need for sequential file naming?
Also, are you not planning on using external mics/preamp at this point unless it's for binaural mics?
My recorder actually does more duty as a musical idea catcher- I grab it and record ideas and sort them later. With prev unit I could copy all files off recorder to PC and file naming would continue where it left off on the recorder. This proves essential when going back over/through the recordings as many will be related/variations and will stay grouped based on file name. The Zoom H1 I got has created a huge mess for me as I don't really have time to name or organize all the recordings at first (it starts naming from 1 if you clear the card or from whatever number is left on the card). I have resorted to letting windows append duplicate file names so I have "01" "02" etc. at end of file names- then when I went to use Bulk Renamer to give them a sequence I discovered it does not make a date created, only a date modified which leaves me in a pinch as the files are "modified" when they are copied to the PC!
long winded but hope that makes sense- basically it is a way to keep track of everything with some sort of linear foundation that does not change and can be used for reference.
As for preamp for binaurals I never did use one- almost got a battery box but they sounded fine on the M-Audio Microtrack. I use the Zoom H1 built in mics mostly these days and have not recorded a concert in awhile (kicking myself hard for not recording Richard Stekol the other night- melted my face off it was such a good show) I find myself very distracted when minding recording and have abstained as of late to just enjoy fully in the moment. I do have some gems though that I am so grateful to have recorded (binaurals taped to shoulders under shirt works so great!)
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Or whisper into your mics "set 1" and "set 2" and so on and so on :P ;D
usually i do that on festivals recording much bands, starting recording early enough - saying the band name and date into the mics. so i can sort out the recordings later much easier at home.
the mictrotrakc er has also 5V PIP afair so your mics sounded good with em.
For your neeeds most records have a settings feature, that they start with zero when inserted a fresh card, or continue counting the file naming.
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1- sequential naming with created date in header is a MUST and also sequential naming to continue after card/memory is erased- PCM-M10 still not clear on these points- date created in header is less important if file naming continues after erasing.
You may have a problem with this. I think most recorders (at least the ones I have used) will reset the file number when the card is erased/switched. On the M10, I am pretty sure that if you record to two cards on the same day, you'll end up with two files with the same name. You could number the cards, though.
2-Marantz PMD620 is out- this Amazon review comment mirrors experience with my M-Audio (2 diff units and diff CF cards) and is maddening "Here's the problem: it fails to properly record once every 40 or 50 files. It doesn't record header info for the files which renders them useless. "
I'm surprised to hear that. I have been using one (actually two) for four years and never had an issue. There were some other people here that also used one, and I don't recall ever hearing about such a problem from one of them either...Personally, I still think it is a pretty nice recorder, but, if you don't need the 5V PIP, there are better options these days.
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You may have a problem with this. I think most recorders (at least the ones I have used) will reset the file number when the card is erased/switched. On the M10, I am pretty sure that if you record to two cards on the same day, you'll end up with two files with the same name. You could number the cards, though.
Well I got really used to this with the Microtrack. If I cant find a recorder that does this I might just take a look at the specs and user feedback on the Microtrack 2 and see if it applies. Or wait- maybe I could just never delete very last file off card- bah- I would still lose track. Hmm.
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While the way you have setup for your organization is good, I don't think you will have a hard time learning a new way. Plus, when you plug the recorder into your computer, you can rename the files as you wish as you move them into the correct directories. I know this is not ideal but i think the m10 is a recorder that deserves a hard look even with this negative point.
For binaural mic recordings, take a look at countryman b3. I have a pair of omni mics that could be used in a binaural fashion and don't require a pre-amp.While they are more expensive than binaural mics on soundprofessionals, I think the quality is also better.
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You may have a problem with this. I think most recorders (at least the ones I have used) will reset the file number when the card is erased/switched. On the M10, I am pretty sure that if you record to two cards on the same day, you'll end up with two files with the same name. You could number the cards, though.
Well I got really used to this with the Microtrack. If I cant find a recorder that does this I might just take a look at the specs and user feedback on the Microtrack 2 and see if it applies. Or wait- maybe I could just never delete very last file off card- bah- I would still lose track. Hmm.
On the M10, the file names are given as a date plus a number (like "120101_01.wav"). For the first 99 files, the number will range from 01 to 99 (not sure what happens after that). If you don't need to go past 99 files per day, the file naming won't be a problem...I think other some of the other recorders are similar (although many of the ones I am familiar with don't include the date).
As for the Microtrack 2, I don't have any experience with it, but judging from the comments on this site, I would be hesitant to go that route...
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You wont have any naming problems with the M10, trust me. Like the others have said, the file naming for the M10 has the date and THEN the number for that particular file ;) Once you use it a few times you'll have a good system down for renaming them anyway ;)
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DR-2D has sequential file naming, even if you erase or change cards.
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So the naming method used by the M10 and the DR-2D both seem like they would work. I think the M10 method is more foolproof as you just need to make sure the date is set correctly and i could use Bulk Renamer to truncate the numbering. The DR-2D is cheaper, etc. and naming could possibly be reset by dead battery? (Will_S can you clarify?) I will look at these 2 models more closely. I think if I really want to do a good rec with my binaurals I could buy or build a power supply for them. thanks so much for all the info!
BTW- Bulk Renamer is one of the best programs EVER- http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/Main_Intro.php
(http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/Main_Intro.php)