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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: bamjuggler on January 29, 2012, 01:20:40 PM
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I go to a lot of concerts by a variety of different acts in different venues
I've enjoyed unofficial audience recordings from others, and for a long time have considered
trying to record shows myself.
I'm mostly interested in recording:
- mostly amplified rock/pop/blues/folk-rock/etc. acts (vocals/guitar/bass/drums/...),
often at volume levels where I have earplugs in to protect my hearing
(although I am not a fan of the loudest rock/metal bands,
and sometimes go to more quiet/acoustic shows by folk/bluegrass/etc. acts also)
- theaters and rock clubs ranging in size from approximately 100 to 2500 audience members
(I probably wouldn't even bother taping in a large arena or stadium)
- with recorder in a shirt pocket, jacket pocket, etc.
- with either built-in microphones, or possibly very small stealth microphones
- fairly simple to set up and record at the venue without fumbling around to press a lot of buttons, tweak settings, etc.
I've seen some links from this board to comparisons between different recorders,
but some of those seem to be dated 2008 and I'm not sure if the available/recommended options
are different now in 2012.
Is this current, for example?? :
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/compare-portable-recorders.html
I'm also curious about options related to storage of recorded audio.
From the link above, it looks like most of the devices take SD(HC) cards,
or Memory Stick Pro (Sony only). Is that what most people do, use cards
and carry extra cards with them? Are there portable recorders that have
enough built-in storage (small hard drive, or flash drive)
for recording at least a full concert of approximately 2 hours of audio
at the highest quality (bitrate) supported by that recorder?
I suppose SDHC cards are very portable and are becoming available
with more than 4GB per card at reasonable prices now.
Just wanted a sanity check on what is commonly done and recommended these days.
If there is some other web site that I should be reading or posting these questions,
please let me know.
Thanks!
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Sony's PCM-M10 is, at the moment, the gold standard for stealth recording, with the Tascam DR-2D not lagging too far behind. The M10 is preferred for its unreal battery life (2xAA) and simple interface. It has 4GB of internal memory and you can add a Micro SD card if you desire. It can also record in 24-bit WAV, which was once a desired but not universal feature for a recorder. It is now standard on most units. The DR-2D is similar in size and features and costs half that of the M10. The M10 is far more widely used, but DR-2D users praise the unit. I myself have two other Tascam decks and adore them both.
Don't expect great sound from internal mics on either of these (or any, really) units, especially if just stashed away in your shirt pocket, not positioned properly to pick up the sound from the source. Sound Professionals and Church Audio offer an array of small microphones that are great for stealthing, with reasonable prices to boot.
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This sounds like a perfect scenario to get into Church Audio gear. Either CA-14[Cards/Omnis] or CA-11s or CAFS mics>9100/9200 Church Audio Preamps>Sony PCM-m10
That will set you back about $500.00 MAX
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Thanks for the comments so far.
Anyone else?
Also: what do you recommend for a reliable online store for mail-order purchases of this type of thing ?
I'm thinking of maybe trying to place an order within the next couple of days, having it delivered via FedEx/UPS,
so that I'll have it to try recording at some shows I'm seeing in early February.
I was thinking of getting into taping earlier, and I just went back and found an old e-mail from one of my friends,
circa October 2009. I never got around to actually making a purchase then, for one reason or another.
At that time, he was recommending http://www.soundprofessionals.com
for microphones, at least. Is that still the site to go to now?
(Seems like amazon.com and some others are also selling recorders now...)
At the time, my friend had been mentioning some options including
Edirol R-09, Creative Nomad Jukebox 3, R-09HR, Zoom H2,
and microphones similar to these: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-9
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Looks like BUYDIG.COM is selling the Sony PCM-M10 for $224.95
either directly from their own site, or as part of the marketplace on buy.com
http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=213690686&sellerid=34922015
http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=SNPCMM10
I've bought other things from Buy.com before (but not from buydig.com),
so that is one option at least.
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You could also get if from B&H which would definitely be reliable.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/638090-REG/Sony_PCM_M10_BLACK_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html
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Go to the retail thread here for microphones and look at Church Audio offerings. I like B&H for deck purchases.
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PCM-M10 and B&H, yes.
The 4GB built into the PCM-M10 can handle 6 hours of .wav. You could throw in an external 32GB for about $35. You can record 90 mins. per GB.
The Soundpro CMC-9 are cardioid mics--directional. (Imagine a valentine with its point at your mic--that's the area the cardioid picks up.)
For someone just getting started, I think omnis are better. They are much more forgiving if you move around. Starter-priced cardioids also lack bass response, which can make the music sound shallow. On the other hand, if you have people chatting behind you, and you can sit still and point the mics at the speakers, you might prefer cardioids. Longtime tapers who set up mics on stands, unmoving, are fond of cardioids--pricey ones with good bass.
But I clip my mics to a shirt collar--same stereo separation as my ears. There are differing opinions here, but I'm sticking with omnis.
For a long time I used the Soundprofessionals BMC-2, omnis, and I think they are a great starter mic.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2
They are super stealthy, the size of pencil erasers. Black clips and black mics and black wires against a dark shirt and they are not very noticeable. They are about $50-$60 a pair--lurk at Soundpros for a week or two, they might spring a sale or a two-for-one--and you want to get them with clips and the three-year warranty because Soundpros will replace them with no hassle. The thin, stealthy wires can give out sometime in the third year.
You also need, for any outboard mic, a battery module, which supplies a little power--9V or 12V--that helps the mics handle louder music, recording through line-in (no preamp) rather than mic-in (built-in preamp). http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/310/mics I use the SPSB-8, but there's nothing special about it. Church Audio makes a stripped-down $39 version, though shipping from Canada can add cost.
I've moved on up to Church Audio CA-14, and they sound superb, but they are twice the price and three or four times larger--fingertip-sized, less stealthy. And Chris Church is perpetually backlogged, so it could take weeks for him to make them for you. Soundpros will provide more instant gratification.
The setup is easy. I've got a Lowepro Ridge30 camera pouch. The PCM-M10 (about the size of a point-and-shoot or a fatter iPhone) goes in the main pouch. There's a smaller pouch that perfectly fits the battery box. The mics are on my collar, wires under the shirt, plug emerging through belt loops to plug into battery module (which is plugged into Line-in). Meanwhile, the PCM-M10 has a flat remote that fits in a flat slot at the front of the Lowepro. The remote has a Record button, so all you have to do is leave the PCM-M10 turned on with the battery box into line-in, the remote in its jack, the mic plugged into the battery box. With the BMC-2, my input volume is generally around 5, 4 if you are really getting blasted (with sound, not intoxicants).
Mics are a crucial part of the recording, and equally crucial is where they are placed. If you put a $5000 microphone inside a bag or at floor level, you're going to get a very accurate recording of horrible sound. Put your ears where your mics are going to be to see what it sounds like. In a club, it's usually better to be near the sound guy--who's mixing what he wants to hear where he is--rather than up against the stage, where the PA is going over your head. Position your mics with your ears, not your eyes; you might be able to lip-read the vocals, but your mics can't.
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^ GREAT starting post.
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Thanks, earmonger
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If you do get serious in this hobby, I would suggest taking a look at the countryman b3s and using with the m10--no preamp required.
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Some decent stealth mics for sale here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=150093.0