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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Dominik on January 30, 2012, 01:10:29 PM
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Hi everyone,
I started out taping a few years ago with OKM II pop mics which seemed to be a bad choice for bass-heavy rock shows as most of the recordings resulted in more or less heavy brickwalling.
For about 6 years I`ve been using the following gear:
OKM II Rock Studio mics > A3 > PCM-M1 / TCD-D100
I`m pretty pleased with the tapes I get with that rig. But the problem with the OKMs is their noisefloor which is audible in the qiet parts. At the beginning I mainly recorded loud concerts which suit the OKMs best. Recently I began to tape more quiet bands as well.
Now I`m searching for an upgrade which can handle pretty loud gigs as well as acoustic sets.
I usually go stealth and always try to tape up front.
Can you suggest me a good upgrade for my old setup which isn’t too expensive?
Does another preamp reduce the noisefloor of the OKM Rocks?
thanx a lot in advance!
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Seems that, as it often is, the Church Audio CA-14 will fit your budget and your needs. For the acoustic shows, grab the CA-9200 preamp, which can give you lots of gain. For louder bands, stick to a basic battery box.
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I don't think the Church Audio stuff would be an upgrade.
Look into DPA 4061's instead. They're omnis (like your OKMs), so you don't have to change your taping habits.
I know several people who went from OKMs to DPAs years ago and they've never looked back.
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I usually go stealth and always try to tape up front.
Can you suggest me a good upgrade for my old setup which isn’t too expensive?
You can grab a pair of MM-HLSO for 150$ in the yard sale.
They were modded by Chris Church (4.7k) to handle high SPLs.
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thanx so much for all your input!
I don't think the Church Audio stuff would be an upgrade.
Look into DPA 4061's instead. They're omnis (like your OKMs), so you don't have to change your taping habits.
I know several people who went from OKMs to DPAs years ago and they've never looked back.
I was thinking about getting those but they're pretty pricey ::)
I just listened to some DPA 4061 recordings again and have to admit their sound (at least on those tapes) blew me away.
Now I`m wondering if it's better to buy the 2 mics here in Germany or get one of the Core Sound packages (http://core-sound.com/bk/1.php (http://core-sound.com/bk/1.php)).
I saw most tapers with DPAs use Core Sound Battery Boxes, which one will fit the best with the 4061s and my DAT?
Browsing for the DPAs I saw many different models (http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?xsid=86bdf59733ac4f85298566da8383d3db&sw=dpa+4061&x=0&y=0 (http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?xsid=86bdf59733ac4f85298566da8383d3db&sw=dpa+4061&x=0&y=0) which one will suit the best?
Does anybody have an idea how to get the modded 3.5 mm jack?
Thanx so much for all your help!
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thanx so much for all your input!
I don't think the Church Audio stuff would be an upgrade.
Look into DPA 4061's instead. They're omnis (like your OKMs), so you don't have to change your taping habits.
I know several people who went from OKMs to DPAs years ago and they've never looked back.
I was thinking about getting those but they're pretty pricey ::)
I just listened to some DPA 4061 recordings again and have to admit their sound (at least on those tapes) blew me away.
Now I`m wondering if it's better to buy the 2 mics here in Germany or get one of the Core Sound packages (http://core-sound.com/bk/1.php (http://core-sound.com/bk/1.php)).
I saw most tapers with DPAs use Core Sound Battery Boxes, which one will fit the best with the 4061s and my DAT?
Browsing for the DPAs I saw many different models (http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?xsid=86bdf59733ac4f85298566da8383d3db&sw=dpa+4061&x=0&y=0 (http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?xsid=86bdf59733ac4f85298566da8383d3db&sw=dpa+4061&x=0&y=0) which one will suit the best?
Does anybody have an idea how to get the modded 3.5 mm jack?
Thanx so much for all your help!
Do not buy the Coresound package. Several have reported problems with the wiring.
The best move is to keep them as intended, with DPA's preamp.
I know Church can mod them to a minijack. That would of course entail shipping between Canada and Europe, but his rate for doing the mod is extremely reasonable.
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Another problem I have with my OKMs are noise interference by mobile phones.
Does anybody know if the DPAs have a similar problem?
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Do not buy the Coresound package. Several have reported problems with the wiring.
The best move is to keep them as intended, with DPA's preamp.
I know Church can mod them to a minijack. That would of course entail shipping between Canada and Europe, but his rate for doing the mod is extremely reasonable.
acidjack, how are your 4061's terminated? Just curious. I am enjoying the recent MM set you uploaded - really great sound. I may sell some other gear to get a set of 4061's, which I've always wanted. I'd probably get them terminated to a miniplug since my gear is mostly miniplug/jack already, but I know some folks are choosing mini XLR.
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Don't count out the Countryman B3's...tiny omni's at an affordable price.
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Another problem I have with my OKMs are noise interference by mobile phones.
Does anybody know if the DPAs have a similar problem?
I think most new mics will be better than your old mics, but still turn off your phone. Lacking any actual testing data, I would look at it this way... about 5 years ago AT853's came out with a new model (U853) with the specific idea that it was less RF sensitive. Other makes have made similar changes, they're just less obvious about it. Mics like DPA's and B3's are primarily marketed as lavaliere mics for actors and TV news people wearing wireless belt packs. I think it's reasonable to assume newer mics probably have better shielding than an older set of mics, "older" meaning ones that were made before the cell phone and wireless mic boom of the last few years.
Most larger gear with balanced connections (typically XLR connectors) has less issues with RF because the same noise gets infused on both the positive and negative leads, so it cancels out. That doesn't help you, but I just thought it was worth mentioning.
I like AT853's myself... There is almost always a set in the yard sale at very reasonable prices. Make sure they have the "low sensitivity mod" or they will brickwall like your first mics.
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Do not buy the Coresound package. Several have reported problems with the wiring.
The best move is to keep them as intended, with DPA's preamp.
I know Church can mod them to a minijack. That would of course entail shipping between Canada and Europe, but his rate for doing the mod is extremely reasonable.
acidjack, how are your 4061's terminated? Just curious. I am enjoying the recent MM set you uploaded - really great sound. I may sell some other gear to get a set of 4061's, which I've always wanted. I'd probably get them terminated to a miniplug since my gear is mostly miniplug/jack already, but I know some folks are choosing mini XLR.
Mine were Coresound. They arrived DOA due to faulty/failing wiring (bought used). Coresound fixed the wiring. Then I decided I was done with that proprietary BB because I wanted to do longer cable runs, so I had Chris Church terminate mine in a 1/8" miniplug. Now I can run that into a battery box, or into a Naiant PFA>XLRs>any preamp I want for longer cable runs.
If I had the choice, now, I'd definitely say go for 5pin mini-XLR. It may cost a smidgen more, but it's a more reliable connector.
Glad you liked the MM set >:D The 4061s can certainly handle stack taping metal shows.
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Do not buy the Coresound package. Several have reported problems with the wiring.
The best move is to keep them as intended, with DPA's preamp.
I know Church can mod them to a minijack. That would of course entail shipping between Canada and Europe, but his rate for doing the mod is extremely reasonable.
acidjack, how are your 4061's terminated? Just curious. I am enjoying the recent MM set you uploaded - really great sound. I may sell some other gear to get a set of 4061's, which I've always wanted. I'd probably get them terminated to a miniplug since my gear is mostly miniplug/jack already, but I know some folks are choosing mini XLR.
Mine were Coresound. They arrived DOA due to faulty/failing wiring (bought used). Coresound fixed the wiring. Then I decided I was done with that proprietary BB because I wanted to do longer cable runs, so I had Chris Church terminate mine in a 1/8" miniplug. Now I can run that into a battery box, or into a Naiant PFA>XLRs>any preamp I want for longer cable runs.
If I had the choice, now, I'd definitely say go for 5pin mini-XLR. It may cost a smidgen more, but it's a more reliable connector.
Glad you liked the MM set >:D The 4061s can certainly handle stack taping metal shows.
Personally, I would just leave the microdots on them and get a microdot to 1/8" y-cable made (or microdot to mini-xlr). Preserves the option of going with DPA's extensive (but expensive) accessories...
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acidjack, how are your 4061's terminated? Just curious. I am enjoying the recent MM set you uploaded - really great sound. I may sell some other gear to get a set of 4061's, which I've always wanted. I'd probably get them terminated to a miniplug since my gear is mostly miniplug/jack already, but I know some folks are choosing mini XLR.
Mine were Coresound. They arrived DOA due to faulty/failing wiring (bought used). Coresound fixed the wiring. Then I decided I was done with that proprietary BB because I wanted to do longer cable runs, so I had Chris Church terminate mine in a 1/8" miniplug. Now I can run that into a battery box, or into a Naiant PFA>XLRs>any preamp I want for longer cable runs.
If I had the choice, now, I'd definitely say go for 5pin mini-XLR. It may cost a smidgen more, but it's a more reliable connector.
Glad you liked the MM set >:D The 4061s can certainly handle stack taping metal shows.
Personally, I would just leave the microdots on them and get a microdot to 1/8" y-cable made (or microdot to mini-xlr). Preserves the option of going with DPA's extensive (but expensive) accessories...
Thanks guys. I like the idea of keeping the microdots intact and going the microdot-to-miniplug Y-cable route for now, since I already have a CA-9100 and battery box with minijack inputs. Maybe I'll have Chris make a CA-9100 or 9200 with microdot jacks in the future. Or go mini-xlr...who knows :) I do like the idea of locking connectors so one way or another I think I'll end up going that route even though it might be a little bulkier for low-pro work.
So who should I have make a microdot-to-miniplug Y-cable? Sounds like Chris has some microdot connectors in stock but his wait times are always long. Ted? Darktrain?
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Ted. ;D
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I have had no wiring issues with my core sound dpas setup and been running it since 2005. But since you mention wanting a cheap upgrade to the okms i think these are out of budget.Maybe you can find someone on this board to make you some panasonic wm61s.
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Am I the only one who thinks CA-14s would still eb an upgrade to those OHM's ??? I say get CA14[Cards/Omnis] and a 9100/9200 CA Preamp and be done with it ;)
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Am I the only one who thinks CA-14s would still eb an upgrade to those OHM's ??? I say get CA14[Cards/Omnis] and a 9100/9200 CA Preamp and be done with it ;)
I don't think it can beat the 4.7k modded MM-HLSO's, but that's a matter of taste. ;)
You (Dominik) will be able to listen to alot of samples over at archive.org, dime-a-dozen, zomb tracker... Just do a search by mic model and let your ears be pleased. :)
You first asked for a budget rig, but then talked about getting some DPAs.
My advice : take the DPAs if you have the $$$.
Otherwise, if you do 90% stack taping take the 4.7k modded MM-HLSO's that someone is selling in the yard sale for 150$. Amazing bang for the bucks.
If you had to pay 280$ for a brand new MM-HLSO's pair + ~20$ for the 4.7k mod (+ postage), I would have told you to get the CA-14(o).
You'll always need to power the mics so save some money for either a battery-box (cheap) or a Church Audio 9100/9200 preamp.
I personnaly improved my sound by keeping the same mics but switching from a simple battery-box to a CA preamp.
One last note : ask Chris Church for a built-in switchable bass roll-off filter if you order his preamp. You'll need this when using omnis ;)
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Am I the only one who thinks CA-14s would still eb an upgrade to those OHM's ??? I say get CA14[Cards/Omnis] and a 9100/9200 CA Preamp and be done with it ;)
I don't think it can beat the 4.7k modded MM-HLSO's, but that's a matter of taste. ;)
You (Dominik) will be able to listen to alot of samples over at archive.org, dime-a-dozen, zomb tracker... Just do a search by mic model and let your ears be pleased. :)
You first asked for a budget rig, but then talked about getting some DPAs.
My advice : take the DPAs if you have the $$$.
Otherwise, if you do 90% stack taping take the 4.7k modded MM-HLSO's that someone is selling in the yard sale for 150$. Amazing bang for the bucks.
If you had to pay 280$ for a brand new MM-HLSO's pair + ~20$ for the 4.7k mod (+ postage), I would have told you to get the CA-14(o).
You'll always need to power the mics so save some money for either a battery-box (cheap) or a Church Audio 9100/9200 preamp.
I personnaly improved my sound by keeping the same mics but switching from a simple battery-box to a CA preamp.
One last note : ask Chris Church for a built-in switchable bass roll-off filter if you order his preamp. You'll need this when using omnis ;)
Agreed. Go to archive.org and listen to as many samples as possible and see what you personally like ;)
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Thank you so much for your kind help and advices!
I luckily found a taper who sells me his DPA 4061s.
Now I`m thinking about getting a preamp as well. For now it's either a Naiant Tinybox or a Church Audio 9100/9200.
Does anybody know which one will suit the DPAs better?
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How are the dpas terminated? I beleive that a 9volt battery box or preamp is too much power for the dpas. I thought around 5 volts?so id be careful.
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How are the dpas terminated? I beleive that a 9volt battery box or preamp is too much power for the dpas. I thought around 5 volts?so id be careful.
They will be terminated in a 3.5 mm minijack.
I`ll ask Jon about the power supply. Thanx for the hint!
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The DPAs have no problems with a 9V battery box or pre. That's what the MPS6030 and MMA6000 use...
If I recall correctly, DPA says a minimum of 5V.