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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: NOLAfishwater on February 04, 2012, 08:51:35 PM
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Usually I run Schoeps onstage, but last night I tried using a stereo pair of the micW N101. The Tascam HS-P82 preamps are super hot and the -25db pad always has to be engaged. With the Schoeps I usually add back 8-12dbs of gain. Last night I had the -25db pad engaged and the gain at 0 and the mics were still clipping. After looking back at the specs it looks the the sensitivity looks extremely different than the Schoeps. Can someone explain this. Also, I have a pair of Shure in line attenuators, could these be used to pad the mics even more? I liked the sound of the micW and want to run them some more.
here are the N101 specs:
Capsule diameter 23.8 mm
Polar pattern Omni
Sensitivity (±2dB) 22mv/Pa; -33 dB re. 1v/Pa
Frequency Response 10 Hz ~ 20kHz
Power Supply 48 V Phantom power
Total harmonic distortion (THD) <1% up to 130 dB SPL peak
Thermal Noise <16 dBA
Output impedance <200 Ohm
link to spec sheet with frequency response: http://recordinghacks.com/pdf/mic-w/n101-manual.pdf
and here are the Schoeps specs:
Frequency range 20 Hz - 20 kHz
Sensitivity 10 mV/Pa
Equivalent noise level (A-weighted) 14 dB-A
Equivalent noise level (CCIR) 26 dB
Signal-to-noise ratio (A-weighted) 80 dB-A
Maximum sound pressure level at 0.5% THD 133 dB-SPL
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Would love to hear these. These are metal diaphragm (nickel?) mics, so they have the potential to sound great! I'm thinking a really warm and natural sound...
Richard
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Well I moved them around on stage to a spot where they no longer were clipping. Guessing it was too loud next to the drum set. The Tascam runs really hot, I am thinking that it is the preamp that is pushing to much gain which would mean that I could run an inline pad. I have only used the pads for hot board signals and have yet to try them on mics. The N101s do sound really nice. Holy low end batman. The booty on them is unbelievable is fat and clear. This particular model does sport a 23.8mm brass capsule and is listed as a large diaphragm mic.
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the attenuator looks like this:
Mic < female xlr end (labled input 1000 ohms) < ----- > (labled output 150 ohms) male xlr end > recorder
or do I have to switch it the other way around.
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here are the N101 specs:
Capsule diameter 23.8 mm
Polar pattern Omni
Sensitivity (±2dB) 22mv/Pa; -33 dB re. 1v/Pa
you sure they are only 22mv/pa? fullcompass and others list them as 40mv/pa which *is* hot.
I'd be interested in samples. I saw you ask over at GS if anyone had tried them and I'm curious as well.
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I took the specs from the user manual which is linked above. Guess the output is really hot
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Weird. Their site says 40 and the owners manual shows 22. I am guessing the manual dl from recording hacks is wrong. It must be the higher output listed.
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$2200 for a pair of Chinese mics? Damn. They better sound good!
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$2200 for a pair of Chinese mics? Damn. They better sound good!
They are competing with DPA 1" metal diaphragm mics. That is certainly too much, though. As a company, I would not risk my measurements with Chinese mics, as an individual, I would search for "brand name" like Neumann, etc.
If there was a cheaper way to buy "wholesale" I would consider it.
by the way, classical recording people are using these type of mics, but not Chinese capsules. Instead the ACO-PACIFIC (Japanese) capsules have been used, such as in the THE brand mics.
Richard
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What is this about metal diaphragms and warm sound? To most people it's intuitively obvious that metal diaphragms sound brighter and harder than Mylar, because nickel is bright and hard while plastic is soft.
Seriously, though (i.e. all traces of alchemy aside) diaphragm material makes only an almost incidental difference in the sound of a microphone. In many pressure-gradient capsules you can substitute Mylar for nickel or vice versa, and once the diaphragm tension is adjusted so that the primary resonance gets to the frequency it's supposed to be at, the sonic difference between the two materials will be negligible.
The majority of the mass that moves when a microphone diaphragm is propelled by sound waves isn't the diaphragm itself, but the diaphragm plus the air layers on both sides of it. And the diaphragm's movement is controlled predominantly by air friction within the capsule--not by its own stiffness. That controlling friction is the result of the capsule's acoustical design. The diaphragm is anything but a "free agent."
--best regards
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What is this about metal diaphragms and warm sound? To most people it's intuitively obvious that metal diaphragms sound brighter and harder than Mylar, because nickel is bright and hard while plastic is soft.
Seriously, though (i.e. all traces of alchemy aside) diaphragm material makes only an almost incidental difference in the sound of a microphone. In many pressure-gradient capsules you can substitute Mylar for nickel or vice versa, and once the diaphragm tension is adjusted so that the primary resonance gets to the frequency it's supposed to be at, the sonic difference between the two materials will be negligible.
The majority of the mass that moves when a microphone diaphragm is propelled by sound waves isn't the diaphragm itself, but the diaphragm plus the air layers on both sides of it. And the diaphragm's movement is controlled predominantly by air friction within the capsule--not by its own stiffness. That controlling friction is the result of the capsule's acoustical design. The diaphragm is anything but a "free agent."
--best regards
OK, "warm" is the wrong word. What I'm thinking is maximum realism (detail) with no unpleasant "artifacts". For example, when I compare DPA4060,1 to the classic DPA4007, I prefer the 4007.
The DPA4061 have tons of detail. Ghostly real. But if that was all there was to it, we wouldn't be searching out other mics, would we?
No idea how to actually "measure" distortion on a mic. Could it be phase alighment at different frequencies? Could it be noise detectable by "step" or "impulsive" signals. Don't know.
Richard
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Could it be phase alighment at different frequencies?
maybe, but unlikely. The new DPA 4006 cap would have been rejected if consistant phase was really important as there is a slow curve from +100 to about -10 (across 20khz). The 4015 and 4011 caps don't exhibit that and barely deviate 15 degrees across the same spectrum.
but yeah, I don't know how thats measured either.
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I had to use a shure inline attenuator when using them onstage. From what I was reading you should place the attenuator as close to the recorder as possible. They stick out a bit, wonder if anybody can make me a set of stubby attenuator cables
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I had to use a shure inline attenuator when using them onstage. From what I was reading you should place the attenuator as close to the recorder as possible. They stick out a bit, wonder if anybody can make me a set of stubby attenuator cables
Paging Robb or Ted ;D
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well, I ran one N101 and one MK6>KC5>PFA (both sounded good). I ran the attenuator -15db at the recorder as directed, however, the mic still was getting clipped even though it wasn't showing a clip on the recorder. Guessing that the N101 are too sensitive for running onstage close by a drum set. Not sure how I can get around this problem. Any thoughts?
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from the original post:
http://recordinghacks.com/pdf/mic-w/n101-manual.pdf
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well, I ran one N101 and one MK6>KC5>PFA (both sounded good). I ran the attenuator -15db at the recorder as directed, however, the mic still was getting clipped even though it wasn't showing a clip on the recorder. Guessing that the N101 are too sensitive for running onstage close by a drum set. Not sure how I can get around this problem. Any thoughts?
so you can hear the clip, but it didn't overload the recorder or is it that it overloaded an active electronics recorder (which may not show the peak, but passes along an overdrove signal)? It actually could be either, they are rated for 1% thd at 130spl and close to an aggressive kick drum might hit past that. DSatz once said you can drive a condenser past that for some headroom (in trade of some noise) but you don't get more then 4spl worth until it takes an exponential hit on noise.
I've mic'd a kit overhead style before and it came out at around 132spl.
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132dBSPL is pretty loud for overheads, you really want to be a bit higher above the cymbals. That would be a real cymbal basher.
Yeah, it was an odd setup, I actually was trying to mic the rest of the kit, but they had it setup in a mirror fashion (one player on each side of a shared kick) and it was in a crap room so I tried to lower the mics a little to maximize sound:reverb. It worked out great, but it's the best reference I've got to getting close drum setup. :-\
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I had the mic close to the kick drum and it only seems to overload when there was a loud kick drum thump.
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I returned this set of microphones for a full refund after running them a couple of times. They were not up to specs and it was disappointing.