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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: hlsidle on February 27, 2012, 04:50:14 PM
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Hey everybody,
I want to start taping my band practices and concerts. I went to Sam Ash the other day and they at the counter recommended that I use the Zoom H4N. Originally I thought I should buy 2 Audio Technica AT2021s, a MicroTrack recorder, and a Phantom Power box, but the people at Sam Ash told me that was not necessary. I want to stay cheap, but not so cheap that I don't get a decent sound. So here are my questions:
Would a Zoom H4N w/ internal mics be good enough to record a concert and make it actually sound decent?
Would a Zoom H4N w/ external mics connected to it be good enough to record a concert?
What equipment to you need to record a concert?
Thank you!
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Go with external mics for sure
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The Zoom's have a reputation for being unreliable and noisy. While I have heard that the newer units such as the H4N are better, I'd steer clear. I
I'm partial to the Sony M10 with Denecke ps-2 phantom power supply and my Avantone CK-1 mics. The M10 has incredible battery life, a good preamp and is compact. The built in omnis are suitable for scratchpad/practices and it shines with external mics.
$210 for M10
$75 for phantom supply
$150 for AT 2021s
Choice and positioning of the mics is probably the most important factor. Separate mics give you more options for placement, and pickup pattern.
Steve
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This isn't the first post where I have seen music instrument stores push the H4. As suggested above, the Sony M10 is a wise choice. Good deals can be found online.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/638090-REG/Sony_PCMM10_B_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html
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This isn't the first post where I have seen music instrument stores push the H4. As suggested above, the Sony M10 is a wise choice. Good deals can be found online.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/638090-REG/Sony_PCMM10_B_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html
Get the M10... You can always add mics and a preamp later, if you want... but for recording band parctices and an occasional, the internal mics would be just fine...
While the Zooms will probably work, I think they are glitzy toys... The M10 is the real deal...
Terry
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Here are some recordings with the onboard omnis of the M10
http://www.archive.org/details/pk2011-08-05.M10.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/pk2011-08-05.M10.flac16)
http://www.archive.org/details/mgg2011-08-13.m10.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/mgg2011-08-13.m10.flac16)
http://www.archive.org/details/nm2011-08-13.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/nm2011-08-13.flac16)
External mics are even better
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Steve%20Kennedy-Williams (http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Steve%20Kennedy-Williams)
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Get Church Audio CA14[Cardioids & Omnis], a Church Audio Battery Box/Preamp, and a Sony PCM-M10 and youre all set. That will set you back about $500.00 MAX, and you WILL DEF get HQ sound ;)
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Thanks for the help! I really appreciate it. One more question. Does the SONY recorder let you separate each track before you upload the files or do you need to do it with a program online?
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I am not sure if it splits, but most of us split the wav file in post. I use CDWAV:
http://www.milosoftware.com/en/index.php?body=cdwave.php
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Thanks for the help! I really appreciate it. One more question. Does the SONY recorder let you separate each track before you upload the files or do you need to do it with a program online?
You can put splits with the recorder, but like Belexes said most here do it on the computer. Audacity is another free program (especially if you're on a mac) a lot of people use.
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
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Thanks for the help! I really appreciate it. One more question. Does the SONY recorder let you separate each track before you upload the files or do you need to do it with a program online?
You can put splits with the recorder, but like Belexes said most here do it on the computer. Audacity is another free program (especially if you're on a mac) a lot of people use.
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/)
I'd definitely do the splits on the computer. I also highly recommend the M10. It's a very impressive little recorder.
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Splits on computer, you have much more fine-grained control over where you split than on the M10. The M10 does have a track marker feature, which adds a marker to the wav file when you hit the button. This is useful for marking where a set starts.
Many editors will read these markers and display them with the wav.
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I just downloaded CDWave and it worked great for splitting up tracks for one of my shows. Thanks! Now I'm going to look on Musicians Friend for mics and I plan on getting the SONY M10.
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Pushing the track button during applause between songs puts in (gapless) track markers. You can then, through the menu, Divide at all the track markers. Or you can Delete individual markers or all the markers, upload the whole file to the computer and do your dividing there.
But at a typical show, I often find the track marks I've made are good enough, unless it's a jam or a very quick segue between songs. One trick: wait until all the reverberation of the last note has died down before you hit the track button. Often the applause starts before the last note fades out.
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I just downloaded CDWave and it worked great for splitting up tracks for one of my shows. Thanks! Now I'm going to look on Musicians Friend for mics and I plan on getting the SONY M10.
This is a good place for starter mics:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/
See also the Church Audio mics in the retail thread.
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Church Audio CA-14[Cards/Omnis], a Church Audio 9100/9200, and a Sony PCM-M10 and youre all set! Sit back and enjoy the kickass recordings :)
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Church Audio CA-14[Cards/Omnis], a Church Audio 9100/9200, and a Sony PCM-M10 and youre all set! Sit back and enjoy the kickass recordings :)
x2
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I can't stand the employees at my local Sam Ash. they love to grandstand and sell you h4n even though you've told them 30 times you don't want it.
The best one out there and easily available right now I would say is the TASCAM DR-40. its very simple: either built-in mics, line in, or external XLR mics... and you can actually record 4 tracks at once. $200 retail price. and the preamps are pretty darn good.
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I can't stand the employees at my local Sam Ash. they love to grandstand and sell you h4n even though you've told them 30 times you don't want it.
The best one out there and easily available right now I would say is the TASCAM DR-40. its very simple: either built-in mics, line in, or external XLR mics... and you can actually record 4 tracks at once. $200 retail price. and the preamps are pretty darn good.
Tascam DR2D as well. Except its only $120.00 and does 4 channels as well :)