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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: raymonda on April 24, 2012, 12:38:14 AM
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Just got my Victors in last week and upgraded the tranformer to the Lundahl. I know that I could have brought them with the transformer upgrade from Cascade but doing it after the purchase I saved about $150. The frequency response on these mics are much wider than a small ribbon. I'm going to use them this Friday on a multi-track gig. i'm not sure for what application but will fiqure it out during the soundcheck.
It is amazing how uncomplicated these ribbons are, just a ribbon and a transformer......nothing else to get in the way. I'll take some pictures and report back after Friday.
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I've attached the frequency graphs from Cascade, albeit, with stock transformer. I think the low end would be improved with the Lundahl, but I could be wrong.
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Cool. Always wanted to play with some ribbons, but never have.. yet.
It is amazing how simple they are, like a science class electromotive effect demonstrator.
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Well, I used them this past Friday as front of the house audience fills. I positioned them blumlein at the very front of the stage. At the stage position vocals always are thin due to missing the PA but stage instruments, as well as, audience and reverb from the rear is ideal. I have run a Nuemann SM69 fet from this position. I have also run split omni's, ADK A51TL and schoeps CCM4's from the the lip. Therefore, I have a very good idea of what other mics sound like as foh fills. Only in situations where the performance is instrumental do two tracks from this position stand well on there own, but this is not what I use the foh fills for. They are used to add "hall" sound and create a live multi-track recording.
That being said, I can report that they did an excellent job. As I had hoped, the longer ribbon extended both the high and low ends. The tracks sound very natural throughout the entire frequency response, with the high end being very real and refined. One item of note is that they do require extra gain, so one should have a preamp that has decent gain to get the best from the mics. Over the next few months I will use them for a variety of applications, e.g., cabs, horns, piano, etc. and will provide updated as I move forward.
One thing of serious note is that these mics are large and heavy and, therefore, can take up some space. However, in a blumlein position they are not too bad. They are also need a beefy stand. They need to be run indoors and in conditions that are not rowdy. These are ribbons and are a bit more senstive than condensers. But, for $175 each with the stock transformer, or an extra $75 for your choice of aftermarket trannsformer, they are an absolute steal. For a small cost they are well worth adding to your mic collection and pulling out when the conditions are right.
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Okay, been using these regularly. These are fantastic mics and the best value going today. Anyone looking for a great mic at any price should seriously consider these. In the end you will save a lot of money. I sold my 460's to purchase these and there is no looking back. Buy a pair and use them in small clubs, on stage or up front in large venues. Or, use one in MS with your choice of card. You won't be disappointed.
Ray
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Which transformer did you use?
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Lundahl. The same that Cascade uses as their upgrade. I didn't record anything prior to swaping out the transformer, so, I can't tell you exactly the sound difference. However, generally the transformer upgrade give a cleaner, more extended sound.
If your thinking about it, I would say, go for it!!!!!!!!
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Hi Ray. Do you happen to have any sample links that you could pop up?
I bet these smoke stage-lip/on-stage.
-todd
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Lundahl. The same that Cascade uses as their upgrade. I didn't record anything prior to swaping out the transformer, so, I can't tell you exactly the sound difference. However, generally the transformer upgrade give a cleaner, more extended sound.
If your thinking about it, I would say, go for it!!!!!!!!
model number perhaps?
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Lundahl LL2912
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Hi Ray. Do you happen to have any sample links that you could pop up?
I bet these smoke stage-lip/on-stage.
-todd
Todd,
Sorry I missed your post but no I don't. I haven't used them as a two track yet but I will as soon as the oportunity arrives and I'll make sure it gets up at archive. I have been using them as my primary FOH...stage audience tracks. I also use a pair of Schoeps in the BOH around 30 feet back but they get mostly PA, where the FOH gets mostly stage.
I did a gig with PPL and used these FOH and 2 other ribbons on cabinets. The mix came out nice. Because they are a fiqure 8 you can really cut back on bleed through from the sides. I've attached a photo to show you what I'm discribing. You can't see the schoeps because they are back in the hall and not in this picture,
If you are interested....I can send you a copy of the show and you can get a feel for how they work in the mix. Forward me your addy, and I'll get it out to you.
BTW, I just got some nice shock mounts for them. David Bromberg opens up our fall season and I'll take some shots of them with the new shock mounts and post them.
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I used the Victors last night as up front audience fills for our free Thursday night concert series at the Center in Homer, "Mutron Warriors". Again, these mics are just amazing for what they do. The act was a funk band with a horn section. There was plenty of stage sound coming directly at the mics and with them placed in front of the PA, very little PA. This gave me a great idea how well these work on real instruments as oppose to sound coming from a PA. They did a wonderful job across the entire spectrum and more importantly they recreated real timbres. I ran my, new to me AKG C422, as audience fills in the back of the house........more PA. The two combined together with the multi-tracks will give a great recording.
Saturday we have Bromberg and I hope that he doesn't mind the Victors up front because they do such a wonderful job. I've run LDC spaced Omni's up front with him and he was cool with it but these can have an imposing foot print. If so I'll run the C422 in blumlien up front with Schoeps in the back along with the individual multitracks. Hopefully I'll be able to report report back how the Victors worked for him.
Again, I highly encourage anyone that can handle these mics to pick up a pair. They sound wonderful and are the best value going. The sound you can get from them is difficult to beat at any price. At this point I am able to run a lot of different mics and have a large selection to choose from. Right now my choice for audience fills up front are the Victors.
Outside of my regular recording and sound gig, I have a recreational show coming up in Oct. and have 6th row center for Gov. Mule. A perfect opportunity to see how these sound as 2 point stereo mics. However, as big as they are they might be too much. We'll see!
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I didn't use the cascades tonight at bromberg and instead went with the smaller footprint of the c422 and ran the schoeps at the back the along with the other tracks. We were able to pull out all the stops tonight and David did an excellent. Show. I post in another forum tomorrow.
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Thanks for the reports Ray. You may have talked me into a pair. I've a few recurring instrumental gigs I tape on stage where these would probably work really well, one of which has no PA- a jazz trio with only onstage sound sources. I've been running a bunch of different on-stage/stage-lip setups there: a couple different LDs in Blumlein, M/S, as spaced omnis or near spaced 8s (using the parallel pattern to manage the level of an over loud guitar cab off to one side), SDC cards in ORTF or DIN, other stuff. I've also been running various three channel L/C/R setups primarily for surround use but which also seems to work really well for 2 channel stereo if and when I get around to mixing it down. The last few times I've borrowed a 3rd ADK TL for that and run the three in a relatively near-spaced triangular arrangement of supercards which has worked so well for surround playback along with a couple miniature omnis taped to the face of the stage wall below the lip of the stage facing the audience for surround channels (also added to the stereo mix for ambience) that I'm thinking of looking for a 3rd TL so I don't need to borrow one each time to do that regularly. I've been thinking of trying the three in fig-8 instead of supercard next time, which gets me thinking of 8's more, and this gig has been a great test lab for trying out new setups..
Couple questions-
How would you compare what you hear from the Victors with the other LDs you've used in Blumlein from the same location? The TLs are probably the common mic we've both used and can both relate to the most, the other LD I run there in Blumlein is a Peluso P Stereo, which has a bit more color and character than the TLs.
Have you used them in any other configuration besides Blumlein, excepting close mic'ing?
Have you used other ribbons? If so can you shed any light on the difference between the Victors and those? I've never recorded with ribbon mics, but have always been interested and liked much of what I've heard, when done well.
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I've used other ribbons e.g. royer 122, sank modified beyer 260, golden tube active and cascade fatheads. I've only used the fatheads as a stereo pair as OH's and they were the reason i bought the victors. The others i've only used for instruments. Adk a51tl's i have great respect for but have yet to compare them directly to the Victor's. I've only used the victors as figure eights but want to use them in a spaced arrayed pattern. It is just that figure eight works well for what i use them for
Ultimately i went with the victors over the fat heads because of their flatter and more more extended frequency response. It sounds like for your purposes these might be a nice addition to your locker. I have found them to have truth to timbre that condensers can lack. Well maybe not lack but they push the "real" envelope further.
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All positive descriptives.
So how big and heavy are they really?
Much hassle swapping the transformers?
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All positive descriptives.
So how big and heavy are they really?
Much hassle swapping the transformers?
The body is not overly big, it is ribbon element and screen that makes them big. But they do have a retro cool look to them. Casacade uses the same body a screen that other Chinese made ribbon mics use. However, Cascade uses a longer ribbon for flatter and more exteded frequencey response. BTW, these can handle 165dbs for when you are stacking Spinal Tap. ;)
If you go with the shock mount I suggested it will make the even bigger. I love the look. It is like a time machine back to the 40's and 50's. Artist are going to either love them......or wonder why they have to be so big. Straight up on a stand is not a problem but on a boom extending out would require a base weight.
Come to think of it, I think I'll get a couple of base weights and use them on over heads for Dana Fuchs band in a couple of weeks. I have a feeling that these are going to kill on OH, much like the fatheads do....but maybe even better up top, and won't require and high end eq'ing. Horns should come out really well, e/g/ trumpet and sax...ribbons usually work well on them.
There are 3 solder joints, so it is really not a big deal...for and extra $150 Cascade will install them and it won't void your warranty. Either way you go, buy direct from Cascade, they are cheaper than retail stores.
Here are a couple of web pics.
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Hmmm. I was somehow distracted and almost didn't notice the mic in that second photo.