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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: mrmaxwell on April 25, 2012, 03:31:12 AM
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I am wanting to record some upcoming concerts where recording is not allowed (artist is against it but should be ok a few sections back from the stage)
I know the Zoom gear may not be the best but it seems pretty simple for someone like me who is on a budget and does not have much experience. Is the H1 enough to get a decent recording? (I know 'decent' is subjective just don't want distortion and nice stereo sound) I may look to pair the audio recording up with either some iPhone 4S footage or Panasonic TZ cam (which I am yet to purchase).
I tried some recording years ago on minidisc using some basic card mics purchased from the Sound professionals but was never happy with the sound I got (my error I am sure).
I was also looking at the Tascam portables but they may be out of my price range.
All suggestions welcome.
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If you disliked the sound of Sound Pros mics you'll hate the sound of the Zooms. Also, as to the H4n at least, the mics point forward out of the "top" of the unit - meaning it'd need to be laying "on its back" for the mics to be aimed at all correctly. I believe the H2Ns mics point forward (same direction as the screen) so maybe that's better.
Assuming you are recording rock concerts, you will generally find that none of these internal mics are up to the job. If cost is a factor, get some Church Audio mics, a battery box and an inexpensive deck. Church Audio mics can be found in the retail section of this board. A passably decent SD recorder these days can be had for less than $100. So a Church + some deck rig would cost much less than a single H4N.
I see the H1 itself can be had for like $60. IMHO you get what you pay for, but that plus the Church mics + battery box would certainly "work". But if you plan to record shows very often, I'm a big proponent of the phrase "buy nice or buy twice" meaning you're better off saving your money and getting something that is the right thing the first time rather than buying a piece of junk that breaks that you'll then just have to replace.
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Answer: no Zoom ::)
I was also looking at the Tascam portables but they may be out of my price range.
Tascam Dr-05 new depents where you live around 60 to 80 Dollars.
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I just sampled a Jack White recording on Dime made with Zoom H2 and advertised as "sounds better than I thought it would".
It was painful to listen to. It had literally no bottom end, no separation, it was distorted and had no clarity whatsoever.
If you're going to record a concert that you may want to listen to in the future, spend a little extra and get some decent external mics.
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If you're going to record a concert that you may want to listen to in the future, spend a little extra and get some decent external mics.
+1
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and especially if you want the route with XLR mics the Dr-40 is damn cheap in the us , offers so far i've seen 120 dollars.
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I have some experiences with the Zooms. I have Zoom H4, the old one, and Zoom H2n. I also tested Zoom H1 and H4n.
IMHO Zoom H1 doesn't sounds good for music recording, and I heard the old Zoom H2 also not recommended. But for portability, quick and easy setup, Zoom H4, H4n, and H2n, sound decent.
Discrete setup, mic > cable > audio interface, generally sounds better if you got right components, but sometime, especially when travelling we don't have the luxury to have those gears in our bag.
So, based on my experience recording some orchestra performance, I prefer to bring my H2n, for the M-S setup, with adjustable recording angle, from 30-150 degrees. XY has a very wide recording angle, only suitable if we can put it very close to the orchestra / band, otherwise the stereo image become narrow. M-S is more flexible for distance recording, we can set the recording angle to get wider stereo image.
Beside the recording angle, Zoom H2n is smaller, and less obvious for places where audio recording is restricted.
My2cents ;)
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So what is a good stealth set up?
Do I really need a recorder, battery box and external mics to get a decent stereo recording?
I thought the many 'all-in-one' units had gotten to the point where they were sufficient for decent concert recording (again 'decent' is subjective).
I really just want something to sit in my pocket...you go to whole new level of complex when you start adding components!
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I thought the many 'all-in-one' units had gotten to the point where they were sufficient for decent concert recording (again 'decent' is subjective).
So, yer a "thinking man"....welcome to taperssection... 8)
Think again about those "all-in-ones".....listen to some shows recorded with them, then make up your mind.
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So what is a good stealth set up?
Do I really need a recorder, battery box and external mics to get a decent stereo recording?
I thought the many 'all-in-one' units had gotten to the point where they were sufficient for decent concert recording (again 'decent' is subjective).
I really just want something to sit in my pocket...you go to whole new level of complex when you start adding components!
capnhook makes a great point above, but in general I think the answer to your question is "yes" and to your statement is um, "absolutely not".
Maybe, say, an H4N or a Sony D50 optimally placed could make a good recording... but "sitting in my shirt pocket" is neither of those. In fact, that's a terrible location for ANY recording device of ANY quality.
Assuming you are talking about placing mics either on your person or "discreetly" there are only two really good options: (1) your head, (2) a fixed position with a clear "line of sight" to the sound source, like a balcony rail.
And yes, I'd say mics>power source>recorder [or all-in one recorder that can supply sufficient power] is generally the minimum to achieve decent sound.
But as capnhook said, listen for yourself and decide. I would say that deciding that these internal mic recorders are "good enough" is kind of like saying you want to casually get into photography, and then taking pics with an iPhone. The iPhone literally has a camera; occasionally it can take a pretty decent picture. But generally it can't. Heck, it can "sort of" record audio and video too...
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I bought a pair of 4061s on this board for $300. I bought a Edirol R-05 new for $82. A generous friend from this board rigged up a nice battery box for the combo.
Given the size of the microphones and the size of the tiny recorder, this is about as stealthy as you can get. All for less than $400 and the quality is excellent.
Here's a sample: http://www.nyctaper.com/?p=9114
At this point in the development of digital recording technology, there is literally no reason whatsoever to use subpar stock internal microphones. In most cases, the results are unlistenable recordings with no clarity, no bottom end, and significant distortion. IMNSHO, its a collosal waste of time to record a concert in this manner. Its infinitely more worthwhile to spend a little bit more and upgrade your stealth rig to achieve quality results.
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I was kind of asking the same question in a different thread. I wanted to use the H4n with external mics clipped to my lapel for concert recording. I have a friend who does this and gets really good quality. I know that she spent a lot on her mics but I don't know what kind she uses. I am debating between this recorder and the Olympus LS-100. Any suggestions?
Libby
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Do I really need a recorder, battery box and external mics to get a decent stereo recording?
In my opinion, definitely.
I thought the many 'all-in-one' units had gotten to the point where they were sufficient for decent concert recording (again 'decent' is subjective).
Our definition of all in ones differs from yours. You are thinking all in one box with using the mics.
We do use all in ones but, primarily for the pre-amp and a/d stage, not the mics. Depending on the model,
quite a few are more than sufficient for pulling sweet tapes.
I really just want something to sit in my pocket...you go to whole new level of complex when you start adding components!
If that's what you want, then go for it. Your concert recordings will never consistently be listenable.
This is the truth. You will only get out, what you put in.
Just running internals in your pocket is about as half-assed as it gets.
Not trying to be harsh with you specifically but, we get newcomers with this same exact idea/thread everyday it seems.
Instead of giving you a half-assed answer, I will just tell you the truth.
If this was just for band practice or the like, i would say go for it.
However your understanding of what it takes to have a passable effort is wrong.
Once again, I hope you don't take offense to me being honest. Your idea and expectations will end
with disappointment at the final product.
Honestly, do you really deep down think the majority of the tapes you would make with a pocket
recorder, uhm, in your pocket could be listenable?
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Once again, I hope you don't take offense to me being honest. Your idea and expectations will end
with disappointment at the final product.
No offence taken! This forum is all about advise...and I have been advised!
I will now proceed to get a recorder/batt box and mics in prep for the upcoming tour.
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Once again, I hope you don't take offense to me being honest. Your idea and expectations will end
with disappointment at the final product.
No offence taken! This forum is all about advise...and I have been advised!
I will now proceed to get a recorder/batt box and mics in prep for the upcoming tour.
Like I said, welcome to taperssection. Please check yer wallet at the front door... ;D
Happy taping 8)
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Well....I found my old battery box and mics that I purchased from the Sound Professionals several years ago (very happy).
Now I can focus on what recorder to get....as well as working out what bass roll off settings will work best in large concert set ups.
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Nice! Keep us updated brother!
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Sorry to bump an old topic, but will running better mics into my Zoom H1 be a stupid thing to do? The only settings on the device are input/output volume, and low cut/ auto gain. The H1 internals aren't all bad if you set the input volume low enough. A good Post process (and a few bass plugins) works wonders. A set of Church mics are what I had in mind...