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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: TAlderson on April 25, 2012, 06:21:04 PM
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Hello,
So, I'm exploring my options in the realm of a new recorder and have found three that I think might work. I'm looking for something really flexible- Things I'd like to record include (but are not limited to) classical concerts, bar gigs, open mics, buskers, interviews, and informal jam sessions. The three setups I'm considering:
1) Tascam DR-100mkII
2) Sony M10, as well as some sort of small mixer/power supply to allow for XLR in should I need it.
3) Marantz PMD661
Now, I realize that the Marantz is a huge step up from the other two in price, and that's part of my question. The Marantz is just outside of my budget right now, but I'd be willing to wait and save if it's going to be a giant step up from the other two in quality/usefulness. I'm leaning towards the M10 and then buying some sort of external mixer and power supply for when I need it, which would give me a highly portable setup (M10 alone) or one with many inputs/options (with mixer). The DR-100mkII seems to be a compromise between the two, but is compromise really a good thing?
-Tyler
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I was totally unaware of it until today, but a lot of members here who are using phantom powered mics seems to love the DR100mkii:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152321.0
It sounds like a great recorder with a much better bang for the buck than the Marantz-661.
As for myself, I'm happy with an M10 or R-09HR (and a preamp when I want to use phantom powered mics).
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I really like the Tascam DR100MKII. It is a fantastic recorder for the price, it has lots of really nice features and I think the pre's sound really good. It also is not really in the same league as the Marantz PMD 661. I have both, and while they may look similar, they really are not at all similar. The PMD 661 to me is worth the extra money in the same way one might want a Sound Devices 722 over a Tascam HDP2 (there may be a better example, but hopefully you get my drift). Additionally, if you want the S/PDIF digi in feature to work universally, the Tascam may disappoint. That is what led me to explore and then buy the Marantz PMD 661 after getting the Tascam which did not work with my Mytek 192 ADC. I have no regrets over owning the Tascam, but now that I own and have played with both I just think the Marantz PMD 661 is a much higher quality machine.
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What kind of set up are you going to use with it? Are you going to be travelling with it? Is this a more formal approach to the hobby, or just an informal all in on box for recording on the go? Feature set alone the 661 is clearly the most versatile. No question there. The Tascam is second and the M10 is last.
I would imagine the decision would depend on the rest of your gear chain and your preferred ease of set up. Are you planning on just having the recorder and some mics handy that you can plug and go with out much hassel? The Tascam and 661 obviously you can just plug in some P48 mics and be good to go. With the M10 you will need some sort of extra piece in the chain. Is that a selling point either way? The M10 and say a tiny box wouldn't take up much more space than the 611 and would be roughly the same price.
Don't know how much simplicity is a selling point so do you plan on using the internal mics for the "informal" stuff like busking/interviews/jam sessions? Can't comment on the differences but might be something to look into if thats a criteria.
Pure simplicity says the Tascam and 661 seem like the choice if you're informal and walking down the street "oh, man I should record this," or just want to set up at a bar quick and simple and forget it. Small P48 mics, a pair of cables, the recorder, and some batteries wouldn't take up much more than a small section of backpack. The M10 adds a whole other step to that. Its not much, but its another thing moving around, another cable ect... However, if the extra outside preamp isn't a concern there are a ton of options (which ultimately add to the price). Though, you might be able to find a modded 611 in the YS that sounds just as good as any of the decks with an affordable external pre.
So, it really depends on what you are looking for and your planned use of the gear I would think.
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Yeah, I should have been more specific in my first post. I'm looking for something that I could carry with me "just in case," as well as a quick "hey I'm going to/playing a show tonight, maybe I can get some good recordings." For anything heavy-duty or that I want real pro audio from I've got a laptop recording setup that I can lug over, so I'm not looking for show stopping audio. I'm mainly looking for something to record the concerts, jam sessions, buskers, open mics, etc. that I go to anyway, so that I can go back and enjoy them again or share them. I also do some radio work, so it would be nice to have something I can throw in a bag for quick interviews.
P48 is actually not as big a deal for me, as I have a couple of plug-in power mics and a battery powered AT omni. Obviously, I would rather have it than not, and I do have some mics that require it, but it's not a do or die feature. For me, I feel like the M10 is the right size, but I'm wavering over the fact that it doesn't have XLR in and the fact that it only has 1 input, as well as wondering if the 661 is enough of an upgrade in overall quality to justify the price. I don't want to buy a recorder, then want to upgrade a year down the road.
-Tyler
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Interviews, busking, that sort of thing....the PCM-M10 internal mics easily do the job. I think it's a great point-and-shoot field recorder.
But I don't have the fancier gear.
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Given the wide range of situations in which you want to record (and your budget), I think I would opt for the M10 and a P48 tinybox. Then you could go recorder only; recorder and plug-in power or battery powered mics; or recorder, tinybox and P48 mics, depending on what sort of results you were looking for in a given recording. I think an M10 and tinybox, together, would be cheaper than a PMD661 and smaller as well...
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excuse my English but I speak very bad, I hope you understand.
I tried the marantz pmd661 with Azden FMX-32, also with the m10 sony pcm. There are some differences in the qualities of sound as a whole, but the Azden provides phantom power for the PCM m10 gives sufficient length for long recording sessions. PMD 661 however has a sound color important.
the issue of ease of use in audio bags made me ask those of marantz, why not design a pmd configurations to handle in field mixer?
I sent a simple photo of an idea. they are attached
greetings from chile
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Interviews, busking, that sort of thing....the PCM-M10 internal mics easily do the job. I think it's a great point-and-shoot field recorder.
Hmmm. Actually, it's a "shoot" recorder - no pointing required because the mics are omni so it doesn't matter which way it's facing. But if the interview isn't in a quiet space all the surrounding noise will be captured too with no discrimination. And for buskers you'll get a close to mono sound. For a carry-around-in-pocket recorder I find the more humble ICD-SX750 from Sony gives preferable results.
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But Ozpeter, interviews and busking are not the only thing the OP wanted a recorder for. The OP wanted maximum flexibility.
With or without omni mics in the recorder, I personally would not do an interview in a place where the background noise overwhelmed the conversation. Ditto recording a busker.
The ICD-SX750 holds 2GB. No external storage. And its lowest frequency response is 50Hz so it is not made for full-range music.
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&partNumber=ICDSX750#specifications
I know you are annoyed the PCM-M10 places omnis so close together, but...it has a lot of other good qualities. And you do have that plugin to fix the stereo separation deficiencies.
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if you are serious about interviews, you should consider a dynamic card mic to use with the recorder. Personally, the sennheiser md 46 is what i prefer. the m10 is good but if you're in a noisy area, any recorder with omni mics is likely to be a bad choice.
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I recorded a conversation once with the PCM-M10 internals out on a hillside in a park. You could hear the birds chirping.
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I tried the marantz pmd661 with Azden FMX-32, also with the m10 sony pcm. There are some differences in the qualities of sound as a whole, but the Azden provides phantom power for the PCM m10 gives sufficient length for long recording sessions. PMD 661 however has a sound color important.
Rodhiripod, what was your experience with the Azden FMX-32? Did you ever record music with it? I havn't heard it talked about much so I'm curious
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My vote is for the Tascam DR-100mkII
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Thanks for all the replies, I've seen the azden on BH and wondered about it, so I'd have the same question as JBou about recording music, it seems like it could be a nice little mixer.
I've seen a lot of love for the M10 on this site but not for its cousin the D50. Is the consensus that what you get for the extra $200 (digital in/out, moveable mics, possibly better pre's) isn't worth it? It doesn't seem a whole lot bigger than the M10, but maybe the size makes it less useful for stealthing? I'm leaning towards the M10 but again want to make sure I go through all of my options.
-Tyler
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Well, try to understand my explanation.
When it was my Azden mixer fmx32 knew I had my hands on a sound budget and with little presence in the market, no evidence of sound available and some opinions describing him as poor sound and obviously not at the level of shure, sound device, Wendt, PSC, Fostex, etc ....
However, the first impression is that you know how to configure the connections and know its usefulness and limitations. For example, this mixer does not raise much Azden microphone gain, but the price is a decent fighter. When you have a Sony PCM M10 and want to use microphones that require phantom power, it is recommended that sensitive microphones and excite with not much power, hence the mixer does a good job and noise levels are acceptable and easy to cancel or decrease in post-production. Is a versatile and economic alternative considering the battery life, since the Azden FMX32 can work well with 6 cells (six battery), more or less from 9 to 12 hours, depending on conditions of use. Each channel (3) has its own phantom switch. The LED meter is something discrete levels, but practicing is called the way they operate. Another important thing is to set the input levels on the recorder to use the mixer with ease, ie ensure the maximum level of entry into the recorder with the maximum output of the mixer, monitored from the recorder and from the mixer and will have an acceptable level to equalize and standardize post-production.
With respect to use with the Marantz PMD 661, say that you have to play with the configuration of PMD to find the point of balance. Remember to connect the PMD must be with the switch to "LINE" otherwise find extreme saturation, distortion rare, or loud and annoying levels. As with any writer, the Azden given a moderate and dry signal. The advantage is that the PMD save battery by not having to use the phantom power source and you can play with an extra inning.
Regarding the question to record music or bands with the Azden, I would say it depends on the microphones are used, plus the delivery FMX32 a signal, I would describe as a dry, flat and without much "flavor", but this also depends on microphones and further work in treatment track. In short, a good field mixer, low price, limited the power of the profits to the microphones, but versatile, robust, performs with pride in the rate of battery consumption, and is a good team to enter the world of the mixture of field sources ...
I hope you understand my English robot to Tarzan
A hug from Chile
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I was in the pipeline ...
Regarding the performance of the Sony PCM M10 batteries are the winner, my extreme tests of continuous use, checking and recording in the field with Duracell and Energizer E91 Alkaline LR6 normal (non-rechargeable) have given me the time of recording up to 20 hours. The truth is that the test wingfieldaudio throws them over 40 hours, but the truth is that I have not checked that. It is also important to set the menu display light to save energy. I have not done tests with the Roland R26, but is a good alternative if you want to play with the variations in tone color and fonts to capture, its price is higher, but it is a decent recorder.
In order to simplify the recording kit, for example, not to attract attention and be discreet in areas or places where it is best not to be the center of attraction to get backpacks, engravers, shotguns, etc ... I went out into the field with the PCM M10 and 2 microphones: Audio-Technica AT the 2022 XY Stereo Mic and Rode. without mixer, and is a good kit, simple, but limited, as the Audio-Technica 2022 is bright and very sensitive to sound wind and low frequencies, the AT2022 windscreen is supplied with the hair very short and narrow, I recommend some long hair and bigger to fit well with the head extended. The Rode is robust and less bright, it gives a nearby stereo and flat response and less sensitive to low frequencies. However, both microphones will not power or the balance for large areas or environments where the source is far away and when you're in the midst of a bustle, seek help at home. In post-production I've noticed that increasing the gains to end the AT2022, the noise floor is usually higher than the wheel, but more detailed high frequencies.
The difference between the two microphones is not much, with the Audio-Technica, more sensitive to handling noise and too bright for my taste, with rich sounds at high frequencies.
I hope you understand my English
A hug from Coquimbo - Chile
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however, in the issue of recording bars, concerts, and the street, it is important to consider factors of resonance frequencies as amplification, distance of each musician and his partner, instruments used, type and characteristics of the material which is constructed in place, as well as distances to the walls and the shape thereof. This and other things give an idea of how they will behave the echoes and reverberation of the place. This results in the acoustic qualities of the place and it is necessary to consider when choosing the microphones, and the way it will register. naturally one can monitor how overlapping echoes and noises at certain distances from the source. Therefore, on occasion a small recorder with built-in microphones and a good sound good, walking distance to the source and a band more or less level on their instruments, you can afford something nice record, but if you can be close to the source , or is there a tool that eats the other, or the acoustics are horrible, then that is recommended to use different microphones and more than 2, a small mixer and monitor field sonde place to learn and at what distance from the source.
not know if I understand, but my idea is not only a thing of the recorder, but the microphones and the experience to know or understand the acoustic environment in which engrave.
regarding the use and method, I recorded such natural environments and urban, rural and sometimes dancing and singing in the Andes, on the coast, etc.. on occasions it is necessary to have a small bag with the recorder that has good performance of batteries and a decent mixer, all small and not very flashy. then a couple of microphones in a stereo would think in those environments for sensitive remote and inspiring, a medium with windbreaks shotgun, and a look that is versatile voice, to take a lot of noise or power, like a kick or group near you exceed the capacity of more sensitive microphones, this microphone can be complemented with other environmental decision-rounded sound and have a more full. this as basic.
provides a quick charger for rechargeable batteries and a good set of batteries perform well in mAmp
greetings from Chile