Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: mellotone on May 09, 2012, 04:09:15 AM
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Hey fellas,
Looking for a few opinions here, always appreciate the input from the TS intelligentsia. Recently picked up a few tix to see Wilco + Lee Renaldo play at the Ommegang Brewery in late July and was looking for some feedback. I'm envious of the gear arsenal most of you roll with but my options are rather slim. Nonetheless, I wanted to get your opinions on what you might recommend given the venue, performers and my rather modest gear basket.
You can see from my sig that I have Nak 300s as well as a pair of CP-4 caps that I picked up from a fellow TS member (Mark, nothing but good things to say about this guy) as well as the Church omnis & cards. A few months ago I also grabbed a pair of NIB TOA K2s that I'm really itching to test drive.
My initial thought was to try the CP-4s with a CP-2 in the middle, 80s style but would need to pick up a mixer (MX100) or similar to do so. I really wanna break out the TOA K2s but am thinking they probably perform better indoors in a smaller venue.
Any thoughts on which mics to run and what config would yield the best chance for a decent pull?
My current recorder is an Oade concert mod PMD 661.
I'm considering picking up a mixer or preamp if needed but will not likely add any mics between now & then.
As always I appreciate any and all feedback and thank you in advance for taking the time.
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I am not familiar with the venue. But, I am sure some of the other guys will chime in. Personally, I would go with the CP-1s ORTF or DIN.
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i looked for a picture/description of the venue but their website is so fucking annoying that i quit looking. the room defines what you do, but the main thing is finding the sweet spot and getting there. unless the place is enormous, the 300s din or xy ought to be fine.
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Three of us from the NYCTaper crew will be at this show as well, running (I am sure) a variety of gear. I'm sure at minimum we can find you some clamp space if needed :)
It actually wasn't even clear to me that the show was outdoors, but if it is, I will probably run either my Schoeps or AKG 414 omnis on a 3ft space bar, with either a single directional mic or cardiod pair in the center.
I'd think your plan to do the 80s-style thing with the Naks would sound good, assuming you've got good windscreens. Or, the CA-14 omnis at a nice split will probably sound good as well, again with the right windscreens.
FWIW, we ran a similar whole mess of gear at the recent Central Park shows. One night I ran space DPA 4061 omnis and Dan ran KM150+DPA 4021. Dan's pull is here: http://www.nyctaper.com/?p=7322 (BTW, the sound that night was pretty bad- not because of Stan, but because he was forced to use weirdly low volume). Compared to Dan's pull I was pretty happy with the 4061s; I might say there were some facets of it that I liked better, some I liked less.
Anyway, hope to see you at the show!
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i looked for a picture/description of the venue but their website is so fucking annoying that i quit looking. the room defines what you do, but the main thing is finding the sweet spot and getting there. unless the place is enormous, the 300s din or xy ought to be fine.
Agreed!
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Never been to the venue, will decide what to run after seeing the place. Looks like a nice turnout of tapers are headed to this one.
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Never been to the venue, will decide what to run after seeing the place. Looks like a nice turnout of tapers are headed to this one.
Once you do, please let us know! I won't get to see it until this show.
Do you have any idea of whether the actual show is indoors or outdoors?
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if it's outside... get to the sweet spot.
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I have friends that actually work for Ommegang and they don't even know what the "venue" will be like. Since the brewery is on over 100 acres of beautiful upstate NY land, I'd say there's a 99% chance that it will be outdoors and they'll just set up/build a stage for the band to play on. The Ommegang folks are pretty resourceful. FWIW, Cake is playing there in June so if anyone is going to that show, it will be the litmus test on how things are set up.
Just thinking aloud here: maybe we should include a roll call as part of this thread? There do appear to be quite a number of tapers going.
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Yeah, unfortunately the brewery web site doesn't shed much light on how music events are setup on-site, however a quick google search or Flickr (has some images of an Avett Bros. show from last year) shows a few past events and most appear to take place outdoors on what looks like a small, flat field or piece of land directly behind the brewery, so I'm guessing outdoors.
Thanks for the input so far on the mics, I have yet to try spaced omnis or a three mic setup but definitely agree that if it is indeed an outdoor setup these could be the way to go and would be fun to try something different. I'll need to pickup a NAK MX100 (probably the cheapest option) to do so but would be curious if any of you guys run a different mixer that you prefer for a similar three mic arrangement.
Thanks (Acidjack) for the link to the Central Park shows, gonna give that one a listen now. Did you and Dan use the same omni space-ing for your setups?
It's hard to know where the soundboard will be located and at what distance from the stacks/stage it will be but I'm hoping that arriving on the early side and scoping it out shouldn't be too difficult. Agree DigiGal it would be great to get a strong turnout out of tapers for this one, if the weather cooperates it should be a blast. Good to hear that the NYC Taper crew as well as other TS members will be in attendance, should make finding the sweet spot a little easier for me ;)
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I was thinking it would be an outdoor show given the date but ticket just lists General Admission RAIN OR SHINE.
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if it's outside... get to the sweet spot.
ftfy ;)
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Thanks (Acidjack) for the link to the Central Park shows, gonna give that one a listen now. Did you and Dan use the same omni space-ing for your setups?
My omnis were split at maybe 2ft or so... they were hanging off the shockmounts of Fried Chicken Boy's 414s >:D
Dan's 150s were pointed at the stacks; his DPAs were ORTF. They were just to the left of the stand I was on, and a little lower. hi and lo had MK5s just under Dan's mics DIN (IIRC).
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^^ Not to cause a dispute :), but both nights you had your 4061's hanging off my stereo bar/mounts and it was closer to 1 to 1-1/2 feet. Seeing as some tapers advocate split omnis at upwards of 3 feet, they weren't spaced too far. Seemed to work just fine as, IMHO, our pull from second night with equal parts 4061's and 3031's is a killer.
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^^ Not to cause a dispute :), but both nights you had your 4061's hanging off my stereo bar/mounts and it was closer to 1 to 1-1/2 feet. Seeing as some tapers advocate split omnis at upwards of 3 feet, they weren't spaced too far. Seemed to work just fine as, IMHO, our pull from second night with equal parts 4061's and 3031's is a killer.
My bad - just estimated the distance of the split wrong!
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Since you have the TOA K4's use them, they shine, I think they are flatter and crisper than the nak 300's now nak 700's is a different story.
I'd run FOB 3 20 to 30' from stage Toa K4's DIN (20cm @ 90°)
above head high if possible, if not even just head high with a few buddies as a quiet buffer blocker zone.
Your recording will smoke!
Or do the same with the Nak cards
If you can run 4 channels, spaced omnis and a DIN set up would be sweet.
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If you are looking for a mx 100 here is one in the YS
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155311.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155311.0)
no connections.
just an FYI
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So a bit of bad news on my end, I goofed on getting tix to this Wilco show as my wife politely reminded me that we're already scheduled to be in Montauk for that weekend, while I love Montauk I'm really bummed about missing out on this one and getting a chance to run a new open setup. That being said, I will be posting this pair of tix in the ticket exchange here and will gladly offer them at a bit of a discount if there are any TS members who are considering going.
Archival:
Thanks for the suggestions on the placement and config–making a note of this for future reference. Unfortunately I only have one TOA K-4 (still looking to pick up that second one) although the set of K2s I picked up will be getting a test run tomorrow evening at the Rock Shop (a smaller room venue in my neighborhood) for the Damien Jurado late show. One of the reasons I picked up this pair was b/c I had read TS members preferring their sound/performance over the NAK 300s, although the differences may be subtle I'm still interested in comparing for myself as I continue to use both sets.
I have indeed been eyeing that MX 100 in the yard (looks to be in great condition), but given my recent scheduling mishap I've decided to hold off for the time being. there also seem to be a few floating on ebay pretty regularly though not as clean.
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Archival:
Thanks for the suggestions on the placement and config–making a note of this for future reference. Unfortunately I only have one TOA K-4 (still looking to pick up that second one) although the set of K2s I picked up will be getting a test run tomorrow evening at the Rock Shop (a smaller room venue in my neighborhood) for the Damien Jurado late show. One of the reasons I picked up this pair was b/c I had read TS members preferring their sound/performance over the NAK 300s, although the differences may be subtle I'm still interested in comparing for myself as I continue to use both sets.
I have indeed been eyeing that MX 100 in the yard (looks to be in great condition), but given my recent scheduling mishap I've decided to hold off for the time being. there also seem to be a few floating on ebay pretty regularly though not as clean.
Sorry to hear the news ~ It would be an awesome show, no doubt. Sometimes family is more important...
I purchased a set of TOA K1's in 1986 Between me and a few other taping buddies, likely at least 1000 shows were recorded with them. Alas one mic needs some major work, some day I'll get them running again. The K4's were a step up from the K1's
However the K1's could run off a single AA battery. K4's Phantom early.
If I ever get the tiem to work on my K1's I may mod them, not sure yet.
I have nothing bad to say about Nak 300's ar any Nak - I really like them. Sometimes my ear likes the TOA's better, just a different flavor.
--Ian
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I recommend that you drink the hell out of their Hennepin, and finish your night with a 3 Philosophers.
Enjoy and have a blast. I love that town.