Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Paul Hostage on October 21, 2012, 04:36:36 PM
-
Hello Everyone,
This is a call out for help in diagnosing what may have gone wrong recording a show last night.
My rig is Sony PCM-M10, Church Audio CA-14's, SP-SPSB-10, Sound Professionals six inch interconnect.
My settings were:
Record Level: Manual
Record Mode: 48kHz/24bit
Record Level: 3.5 to 4
Plug In Power: On
Limiter: On
Effect: Off
LCF: On
Microphones: mic in
Fresh batteries in the Sony, checked the battery in the power supply a few weeks ago, it checked fine.
I recorded Ian Anderson performing Thick As A Brick 1 and 2. Besides missing about the first 4-5 minutes of TAAB #1, all of TAAB #1
turned out really well.
I have to gush for a second and say those mikes and that recorder make damn fine stereo audience recordings.
Now the problem, after intermission, at the beginning of TAAB 2, I started recording, all looked well, set the gain
and off we went. Got home, dumped it into iTunes, listened to the raw recording and after intermission, no
right channel whatsoever. Left channel great, nothing on the right. Today I discovered the mini plug at the end
of the mikes was slightly loosened, probably from being moved between case and pockets. I have not checked
the battery in the power supply.
Also, is the Sound Professionals power supply a true two-channel supply or should I upgrade to one of the Church Audio models?
One other thing, for both halves of the show, only the left channel of the PCM-M10 gave a level read out, no
green to red on the right, is this normal when using external microphones?
Sorry for the length of the post and if you have a chance go see Ian Anderson do TAAB, it's great!
Kind regards, Paul
-
Has nothing to do with your mono problem but you should turn off plug in power as well as low cut and limiter.
-
Since you were using a battery box, plugin power was unnecessary (although I don't know if that would cause any issues sound-wise).
I also struggle with keeping the mic plug in the M10 jack. Someone recently posted a pretty nice solution but it requires molding a custom plug with a dummy line plug to keep it stable:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=158776.0
I thought about using a rubber band, but that would cover the display/buttons. I also thought about using velcro, but don't want to mess up the recorder with the glue. For now, I just handle the recorder really carefully during recording, but I need a more bombproof solution.
-
Also, is the Sound Professionals power supply a true two-channel supply or should I upgrade to one of the Church Audio models?
The SP box is fine, though if you didn't already own it, I'd recommend the Church box. More compact, cheaper and uses a 9 volt battery which gets 10-15 times the life
of the batteries in the SP box.
Has nothing to do with your mono problem but you should turn off plug in power as well as low cut and limiter.
Agreed except some of us feel it is fine to have the limiter on as a safety valve-just try to keep levels low enough that it is not likely to kick in. If it does kick in, it seems to sound better to me than clipping (as long as you don't go way over 0 dB-then it will be unlistenable whether the limiter is on or not). I leave mine on, but I doubt it's ever kicked in as I aim for levels around -12 dB.
I thought about using a rubber band, but that would cover the display/buttons.
How thick a rubber band were you thinking of using? A thin one works fine and you can still read everything you need to....
-
[quote au
One other thing, for both halves of the show, only the left channel of the PCM-M10 gave a level read out, no
green to red on the right, is this normal when using external microphones?
Kind regards, Paul
[/quote]
Are you saying the level meter showed recording, but the lights weren't responsive? That's odd. Both lights should respond. It is possible that the mic capsules are slightly different, so one's a little less sensitive, or that where they were placed meant they were picking up slightly different amounts of sound. I have seen one or the other green light go on during a show.
But if I were you I would just plug the mics into the mic jack, press record (leave it on Pause), turn up the level and tap each mic to see the light go on.
-
Make sure your plug is in all the way
The first time I used the m10 I noticed that the plug didn't go in all the way unless pushed dwb hard at the end
There is a good chance you had it in but not down 100%
As others said turn off the things not neded and I personally would go line in
-
If you can, monitor at all times, so you'll pick up on any issues like this.
Tape down any non-locking connectors to mics and the level control (it doesn't lock on the m-10)
-
Hello again,
Recorded again last night, there is something wrong, this shouldn't be so hard.
Clipped a mike to each lapel of my coat and was 20 feet from the band in a small club.
Sound was coming from PA speakers over the stage, typical club set up.
The recording is stereo but has no volume, I had the record level set on 10.
There was no indication in the PCM-M10 Left and Right blisters of recording (lights).
Mikes were plugged securely into the red mike jack.
I didn't use the SPSB-10 and turned off the plug in power and LCF.
I believe turning off the plug in power or not using the SPSB-10 was the mistake.
I believe the mistake was no microphone amplification.
I got a nice stereo recording, but the volume is so low it is almost negligible.
I have another chance tonight to catch some bands and I would like
to hand them a memento of the show.
Looking for some help please,
Thank you, Paul
-
Hello again,
Recorded again last night, there is something wrong, this shouldn't be so hard.
Clipped a mike to each lapel of my coat and was 20 feet from the band in a small club.
Sound was coming from PA speakers over the stage, typical club set up.
The recording is stereo but has no volume, I had the record level set on 10.
There was no indication in the PCM-M10 Left and Right blisters of recording (lights).
Mikes were plugged securely into the red mike jack.
I didn't use the SPSB-10 and turned off the plug in power and LCF.
I believe turning off the plug in power or not using the SPSB-10 was the mistake.
I believe the mistake was no microphone amplification.
I got a nice stereo recording, but the volume is so low it is almost negligible.
I have another chance tonight to catch some bands and I would like
to hand them a memento of the show.
Looking for some help please,
Thank you, Paul
Exactly, you need one or the other. You just need to get power to your mics. Without the battery box you need PIP on, with the battery box you don't need power from the M10. Therefore how you recorded, the mics weren't getting any power to them.
Use the battery box, no plug in power from the M10 and make sure the all the connectors are firmly in place at all times. Don't worry, its not that hard, but does take a bit of practice. ;D
-
Awesome, thank you!
-
Yes, if NOT using a Battery Box, you HAVE TO turn PIP ON. If you ARE using a battery box, turn PIP OFF!!!
Practice at home with your stereo CRANKED!
-
Hello everyone,
Thanks for the tips and suggestions, I got a great recording Saturday night.
Upon listening yesterday, mike placement in the venue directly affects the quality of the recording.
For one band I got midway back and center, that was the sweet spot, best balance of
all instruments and vocals.
For another band, standing on stage was cool, but the drums are prominent, still a decent recording.
I had time and light to check the levels and because of the type of music or venue
only had to set the record level at about 1 and a half. I probably could have set it
at 1 and still have gotten great sound.
I also found it's easier to go back and insert a track mark after recording the whole show,
I could enjoy the music and not worry about the recorder and second, I wasn't familiar
with all the songs so I could take more time with placement and not insert it after a stop and
start in the song.
My PCM-M10 has a clear difference in the sensitivity of the channels, right is stronger than
left.
Not sure if that means the left mike is different than the right, any thoughts?
Anyway, got nice clear recordings of The Spooky, Dissension, Throw Rag and The Smut Peddlers
at the Observatory in Santa Ana, CA.
If you have a chance to see Throw Rag, do it, they are some gritty, wild dudes. They do a nice
cover of "Tonight The Bottle Let Me Down".
-
I'm a bit of latecomer to this thread but most definitely ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS use a battery box at the very least with it connected to LINE-IN. I wouldn't (nor does Chris) recommend running the CA-14 mics on PIP (plug in power).
Also, mic placement is paramount; the most important part of the equation. Learning where to stand and how to mount (and whether you can "run open") will take a little bit of practice. Just because "SPOT A" is the best spot in a club for one show does not necessarily _ALWAYS_ mean that it's gonna be the best place. Also, whether you're running omnis or cards _ALSO_ makes a huge difference as to where you'll want to set up or stand.
I've seen it recommended in these parts and I'll suggest it as well. Cranking your stereo at home is "okay" but it's almost worth going to a smaller venue with some indie bands performing to "learn the ropes" before you've got a big show "you can't miss."
With either set of CA-14's, you'll want to mount them higher than the lapels on your shirt -- maybe wear a ball cap and figure out some creative mounts. I've run both the cards and omnis. For omnis, you'll want to be up close but not too close that you're standing under the stacks (maybe 10 feet away). For cards, you'll want to usually be 1/2 way or 2/3 of the way back in a 1000-1500 capacity (or larger) venue. Some people tape with cards up close but I've never liked my recordings when I (or other local tapers) have done this.
Cheers.
-
I would get to the "sweet spot" no matter whats going on around you, unless its a mosh pit ;) I would run cards/DIN or ORTF or omnis/AB and try and get as close to an equiladeral triangle and be where the triangle meets. [did that make sense] ???
What im saying is, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION ;)
-
What im saying is, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION ;)
Just like buying a house. :)
I prefer omnis "up close" and cards "further back." That's been my general rule but the equliateral triangle approach is also very important too because that distance from the stage will generally be the best sounding spot (and in smaller venues it's usually closer to where the board is). Sometimes, it's just not possible to be in that triangle though -- I've had to roll on a stand at the back corner of a narrow club numerous times because that's where the board was and I didn't want to piss off paying fans.
-
If you can get into the club before the gig, hanging your mics in the sweet spot is ideal. No stand for folks to trip over.