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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: shakehurst on November 15, 2012, 03:03:15 PM
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I'm glad I stumbled upon TS, this place looks great. I very quickly tried to look if this topic had already been posted, but I didn't see it (though "quickly" can easily lead to something beind missed), anyways, here's my deal:
Myself and some other people are going to be leasing a building very soon, the downstairs of which will be a venue. I'd like to record every show we do there. It's a smaller venue so we won't be running anything through the soundboard aside from vocals, so sbd recordings won't be happening.
What would be the best practice for having a permanent room mic? Attach to the ceiling? They will be mostly punk/hardcore/metal/noise shows if that makes any difference for gear.
Later on down the line (due to budget) I'd also like to set up a few cameras and record the shows that way as well.
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At the Tractor Tavern in Seattle we have a permanent hang point. (We pull our mics down after the show)
It has a clamp to the lighting rig about 15 feet from the stage with a baby pin. We used a Manfrotto 099b extension pole which will drop 3-8 feet down. The pole ends in a 3/8 thread that can be stepped up to 5/8 for US mics, and can also take a manfrotto rapid adapter. (Makes attaching mics and stereo bar a breeze.)
We run 4 XLR lines to FOH. I record 4 tracks with 2 being from the board, and 2 being from the hang. If I use any board in the mix it's less than 20% of the total.
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what is your budget? Are there ceiling joists to clamp onto or what? Attaching it isn't really rocket surgery, the amount you spend on mics is the only real variable.
I have installed xlr cables from the soundboard area to my normal taping area at venues before and actually just ordered a set to do it at another venue today. I much prefer this to climbing on ladders or chairs to run cables every time.
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IIRC, user illconditioned here has done permanent installations at a couple of places in Ontario. I agree with crossthreaded, the limitation is your budget for your mics. The hanging/installation part is easy, especially since you're part of the staff for the venue.
If he doesn't reply here in a couple of days, you might PM him and ask a couple of questions. (I'm not sure how frequently he logs on).
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I'd hang some decent but inexpensive omnidirectional mics from the ceiling fairly close to the stacks and stage. That seems to be the go-to plan for most venues. Just don't get mics that are REALLY cheap; make sure it's something with high SPL tolerance and something that sounds good. I'd look to Audio Technica, who make lots of high quality, lowish cost mics. Used AT 853 omnis could be particularly good as they are also small.
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I'd hang some decent but inexpensive omnidirectional mics from the ceiling fairly close to the stacks and stage. That seems to be the go-to plan for most venues. Just don't get mics that are REALLY cheap; make sure it's something with high SPL tolerance and something that sounds good. I'd look to Audio Technica, who make lots of high quality, lowish cost mics. Used AT 853 omnis could be particularly good as they are also small.
I'm in this same position as I'll be hanging some perm. mics in a venue soon as well. The only thing here that is throwing me for a loop is that you suggested omnis, acidjack. I'm surprised by that and I was going to use cards. It's quite a noisy room always filled with talkers and I'd rather not get them in the capture. I'll have the mics up on the ceiling at stack level and not too far from the stacks. Wondering why you think omnis are the way to go? Thanks.
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I'd hang some decent but inexpensive omnidirectional mics from the ceiling fairly close to the stacks and stage. That seems to be the go-to plan for most venues. Just don't get mics that are REALLY cheap; make sure it's something with high SPL tolerance and something that sounds good. I'd look to Audio Technica, who make lots of high quality, lowish cost mics. Used AT 853 omnis could be particularly good as they are also small.
I'm in this same position as I'll be hanging some perm. mics in a venue soon as well. The only thing here that is throwing me for a loop is that you suggested omnis, acidjack. I'm surprised by that and I was going to use cards. It's quite a noisy room always filled with talkers and I'd rather not get them in the capture. I'll have the mics up on the ceiling at stack level and not too far from the stacks. Wondering why you think omnis are the way to go? Thanks.
I reckon it's expense. Good cardioids are (generally) more expensive then good omnis.
The reason all of us look at this and say to go cheap is two things:
1) Often, we think of multiple venues with mics that are out of your control and could be stolen or damaged by inappropriate equipment hooked up to them (the user I mentioned has 2 or 3 installations around town where he is and they are all nice quality but rather economical).
2) This likely isn't a priority so cutting cost in favor of other areas is generally prefered when you're doing an install.
Now, maybe these don't apply, but I have trouble seeing anyone dropping more than $800 for an install pair, but I guess it could happen.
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Ahhh, well that makes sense. I'm not concerned about them being touched. I just happen to have a pair of Busman's not being used so thought I'd put them up. I was going to use the card caps now you guys got me thinking.
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I'd hang some decent but inexpensive omnidirectional mics from the ceiling fairly close to the stacks and stage. That seems to be the go-to plan for most venues. Just don't get mics that are REALLY cheap; make sure it's something with high SPL tolerance and something that sounds good. I'd look to Audio Technica, who make lots of high quality, lowish cost mics. Used AT 853 omnis could be particularly good as they are also small.
I'm in this same position as I'll be hanging some perm. mics in a venue soon as well. The only thing here that is throwing me for a loop is that you suggested omnis, acidjack. I'm surprised by that and I was going to use cards. It's quite a noisy room always filled with talkers and I'd rather not get them in the capture. I'll have the mics up on the ceiling at stack level and not too far from the stacks. Wondering why you think omnis are the way to go? Thanks.
I *think* AJ was impressed with some semi permanent installs we did here in Raleigh for the Hopscotch Festival. Basically we dropped some omnis off of the ceiling directly in front of the stacks, literally within a couple feet of them. The SPLs from the speakers are enough that the music completely overwhelms the majority of the crowd noise, especially during the songs. We used his Naiant X-Xs in one room, and my B3s in another, and in both cases we got some smokin tapes with ~$300 worth of mics/room. For a hard install, this is a great solution on the cheap.
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Ahhh, well that makes sense. I'm not concerned about them being touched. I just happen to have a pair of Busman's not being used so thought I'd put them up. I was going to use the card caps now you guys got me thinking.
in your case, since you might do ok with them, I was thinking in terms of "if I had to go out and buy new mics specifically for this purpose"
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Ahhh, well that makes sense. I'm not concerned about them being touched. I just happen to have a pair of Busman's not being used so thought I'd put them up. I was going to use the card caps now you guys got me thinking.
in your case, since you might do ok with them, I was thinking in terms of "if I had to go out and buy new mics specifically for this purpose"
Busman omnis sound great.
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I'd hang some decent but inexpensive omnidirectional mics from the ceiling fairly close to the stacks and stage. That seems to be the go-to plan for most venues. Just don't get mics that are REALLY cheap; make sure it's something with high SPL tolerance and something that sounds good. I'd look to Audio Technica, who make lots of high quality, lowish cost mics. Used AT 853 omnis could be particularly good as they are also small.
I'm in this same position as I'll be hanging some perm. mics in a venue soon as well. The only thing here that is throwing me for a loop is that you suggested omnis, acidjack. I'm surprised by that and I was going to use cards. It's quite a noisy room always filled with talkers and I'd rather not get them in the capture. I'll have the mics up on the ceiling at stack level and not too far from the stacks. Wondering why you think omnis are the way to go? Thanks.
Besides that good omnis are cheaper to get good quality, they don't have to be aimed properly (I know it's a 'permanent' install, but shit happens), and up close they will give a natural, rich room sound. You also don't have to fuss with as many mounts, since you can basically just plug an omni into an XLR and drop it down, hanging by its cable, from the ceiling...voila! For cards, you'll need a mount, maybe an extension pole, a t-bar, etc. The omnis are easy.
Also, as Bryon notes, my experience has been that hanging omnis work well. Unless these shows are really quiet I wouldn't worry about talkers, and even at that, if the omni mic is near the PA, I don't think it'd be that bad still.
That said, if I already had some Busmans lying around, I'd probably use them. I would still consider trying the omni caps first, though.
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I would do bushman cards or omnis