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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: ivory88 on March 24, 2004, 03:19:13 PM
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Quick question from a total newbie:
Looks like I have the opportunity to purchase a MINT condition Sony MZ-1 minidisc for approx. $80 + shipping. Would appreciate and and all honest opinions on this. I've lurked around TS for a while, and I'm aware of MD limitations, and that JB3's are kinda the way to go nowadays. I also see that the MZ-1 is one of the few (only?) portables with on optical out, which would rrrreeeaaalllly help me with transferring.
Another ?: Will the recorded quality be on par with MD units being produced today?
I am simply looking to stealth a few shows this summer, and don't want to spend huge $$$.
Thanks in advance for all replies!
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I've always had the impression that the only thing that the MZ-1 was good for for xfering digitally. Being that its an early generation MD player i doubt the ATRAC compression is going to be anywhere even close to what it is today. It also looks pretty bulky and probably on the heavy side.
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From what I understand, ATRAC3 is ATRAC3. So it would sound the same if it had the same A/D. I'm confused by you saying that "it's only good for transferring digitally" but in the next sentence say the atrac isn't the same. If it's not the same it's not going to be able to read the disc.
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the MZ-1 has one of the earliest ATRAC methods. so no, it's sound is not comparable to current MD recorders. I highly recommend getting a refurb jb3, I just switched from MD to jb3.
Posted by: mgleason007 Posted on: Today at 04:22:21pm
"From what I understand, ATRAC3 is ATRAC3. So it would sound the same if it had the same A/D. I'm confused by you saying that "it's only good for transferring digitally" but in the next sentence say the atrac isn't the same. If it's not the same it's not going to be able to read the disc."
yes the MZ-1 will be able to read the disc. ATRAC compression is applied when analog data is converted to digital format to be stored on the minidisc. If you're simply using a MZ-1 for a transfer, all it is doing is reading the 1's and 0's on the MD and sending them out the digital output.
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the MZ-1 has one of the earliest ATRAC methods. so no, it's sound is not comparable to current MD recorders. I highly recommend getting a refurb jb3, I just switched from MD to jb3.
Yeah, what he said.
I just switched from MD to a JB3 and I like it so much I'm thinking about buying ANOTHER JB3!! I'm into the sbd/mic mix thing, so it will be nice to have one deck for each source. Anyway, MD is a pain in the ass. 90% of the shows I go to last longer than 80 minutes. It is so nice that I can start the JB3 recording, set my levels, and go enjoy the show.
MIKE B
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Booyah... second that all the way. I'd give a ticket if I could... only a little more... anyways... MD is good for beginers.. easy to learn.... pain in the ass to transfer though. Get a JB3 refurb... you will NOT regret it.... peace!
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the MZ-1 has one of the earliest ATRAC methods. so no, it's sound is not comparable to current MD recorders. I highly recommend getting a refurb jb3, I just switched from MD to jb3.
Posted by: mgleason007 Posted on: Today at 04:22:21pm
"From what I understand, ATRAC3 is ATRAC3. So it would sound the same if it had the same A/D. I'm confused by you saying that "it's only good for transferring digitally" but in the next sentence say the atrac isn't the same. If it's not the same it's not going to be able to read the disc."
yes the MZ-1 will be able to read the disc. ATRAC compression is applied when analog data is converted to digital format to be stored on the minidisc. If you're simply using a MZ-1 for a transfer, all it is doing is reading the 1's and 0's on the MD and sending them out the digital output.
Cool, thanks for the info. +T
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Well, that settles that then. Thanks a lot folks. I'll probably just keep my eyes peeled for a refurbed JB3.
Thanks again everyone!!
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They're up on ebay all the time, direct from Creative.
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the MZ-1 has one of the earliest ATRAC methods. so no, it's sound is not comparable to current MD recorders. I highly recommend getting a refurb jb3, I just switched from MD to jb3.
Posted by: mgleason007 Posted on: Today at 04:22:21pm
"From what I understand, ATRAC3 is ATRAC3. So it would sound the same if it had the same A/D. I'm confused by you saying that "it's only good for transferring digitally" but in the next sentence say the atrac isn't the same. If it's not the same it's not going to be able to read the disc."
yes the MZ-1 will be able to read the disc. ATRAC compression is applied when analog data is converted to digital format to be stored on the minidisc. If you're simply using a MZ-1 for a transfer, all it is doing is reading the 1's and 0's on the MD and sending them out the digital output.
Ahem.
ATRAC3 (MDLP) is NOT compatible with older recorders. Period.
ATRAC (the SP/mono setting) is compatible with older recorders, BUT would not make a suitable digital output device. The digital information on a MD is not what comes out of the SPDIF output. It's compressed. It must still go through a decoding process to get to the digi out. That process (ATRAC decoding) is the difference here. The older MZ1 will decode the music, but due to the age of the decoding chip it WILL NOT SOUND THE SAME AS THE DEVICE IT WAS RECORDED WITH. (No, I didn't leave the caps lock on, I was emphasizing.) Unfortunately, this is the nature of MD. I suggest you get an MXD-400 or similar home deck if you want digi outputs and MDLP playback.
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Ahem.
ATRAC3 (MDLP) is NOT compatible with older recorders. Period.
ATRAC (the SP/mono setting) is compatible with older recorders, BUT would not make a suitable digital output device. The digital information on a MD is not what comes out of the SPDIF output. It's compressed. It must still go through a decoding process to get to the digi out. That process (ATRAC decoding) is the difference here. The older MZ1 will decode the music, but due to the age of the decoding chip it WILL NOT SOUND THE SAME AS THE DEVICE IT WAS RECORDED WITH. (No, I didn't leave the caps lock on, I was emphasizing.) Unfortunately, this is the nature of MD. I suggest you get an MXD-400 or similar home deck if you want digi outputs and MDLP playback.
The more I thought about it the more and more it didn't make sense. Of course the unit has to decompress. The computer isn't going to do it.
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Ahem.
ATRAC3 (MDLP) is NOT compatible with older recorders. Period.
ATRAC (the SP/mono setting) is compatible with older recorders, BUT would not make a suitable digital output device. The digital information on a MD is not what comes out of the SPDIF output. It's compressed. It must still go through a decoding process to get to the digi out. That process (ATRAC decoding) is the difference here. The older MZ1 will decode the music, but due to the age of the decoding chip it WILL NOT SOUND THE SAME AS THE DEVICE IT WAS RECORDED WITH. (No, I didn't leave the caps lock on, I was emphasizing.) Unfortunately, this is the nature of MD. I suggest you get an MXD-400 or similar home deck if you want digi outputs and MDLP playback.
I was unaware that there is an ATRAC decoding process. That's what I get for researching at some shit site. +t, thanks for clearing this up for us.
ps, just another reason why MD is a shitty live-recording format...
ps2, if you already have MD and you require dig transfers, the MXD-D400 is a a very straight forward deck, I recommend it.
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My pleasure. Thanks for the ticket. I'd hate to see recordings transferred with a 1st gen MD player seeded out to the public. Ivory88 would just be asking for an inferno of flames. IMHO it would sound better coming out of an MZR-30 (or better) analog than an MZ1 digi-out. The MZ1 was not very pleasing to the ear when the source wasn't mastered in the studio. I used one for a test when I was first looking at MD to start taping, and was able to compare it to a MZR-30 and just using headphones it was clear that atrac had progressed quite a bit in just the 5 year span between the two models. The MZ-1 definitely sounded much more "mp3-ish" when I did an a-b comparo using analog inputs and my home stereo as a source.
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very interesting...
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Here's the scoop on MDs and ATRAC.
You CAN record something on a brand new ATRAC3 recorder and transfer it on older ATRAC firmwares ONLY if the recording is made in the STEREO setting. As mentioned, LP modes will not work, but you should not be using those for live taping anyway, non issue here.
The problem is that ATRAC has come a long way since 1995 (or whenever). If you take a tape made on an old school recorder and play it back on a new player, the sound will be limited by the ATRAC version it was originally recorded on. Also, a stereo tape made on a new ATRAC3 recorder and played back on an old version of ATRAC will be limited by the version of ATRAC that it is played back through.
It's a hard concept to understand, in the end, the better the gear on both ends of the tape, the better the overall sound. I think you're better off getting a higher end MD deck for playback/conversion. The MZ1 deck is a nice piece of nostalgia, but it's awful for our taping purposes.
Hope that makes sense.
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your favorite MD compression scheme sucks! seriously ;D