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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Thierry on February 12, 2013, 07:24:55 AM
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Ok guys, I just bought a M10. Looking forward to stealth tape some rock shows in the very near future. (Slash etc.)
What would be the ideal settings on the M10. I'm using a CA ugly 2 pre-amp (hasn't arrived yet) and CA14 cards or CA11 cards. (if anybody is willing to trade the CA11 cards for CA11 omni's just let me know - we can do a trade).
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What would be the ideal settings on the M10.
The ones that give you good levels, with no clipping or brick-walling! ;)
Seriously, I would put the M10 at 3 or 4 and get whatever additional gain you need from the 9200. If you have to turn the M10 below 1 or 1.5 to keep from clipping, you will brick-wall. The sensitivity of your mics and the SPLs at your location will be large determinants of where you should set levels...
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ugly at or close to full gain, connect to m10 via line input. adjust m10 levels to peak somewhere betwen -12 and -6. if you think it will be ear-bleeding loud, dial back the ugly to about 75% full gain.
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There's a plethora of information here and on the earlier M10 threads:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.0
Most agree that the optimal (unity) gain for the M10 is 4-5. I always set mine at 4.5 and dial in levels with the pre. I have a v1 Ugly and I set the levels on it once at a loud show so the peaks were >-12db and haven't touched them since. This worked out to about 75-80% gain on the Ugly. With the v1 you need a tool to make adjustments, so it's been easier to use it that way. I make any needed L/R adjustments in post. I think the v2 has actual knobs so you'll be able the adjust on the fly.
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What would be the ideal settings on the M10.
The ones that give you good levels, with no clipping or brick-walling! ;)
Seriously, I would put the M10 at 3 or 4 and get whatever additional gain you need from the 9200. If you have to turn the M10 below 1 or 1.5 to keep from clipping, you will brick-wall. The sensitivity of your mics and the SPLs at your location will be large determinants of where you should set levels...
i would not set the level on your M10 below "3". less than "3" is very risky territory from my experience. i try to keep it between "4" and "5".
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Thanks for the tips sofar, it looks like I'm going to tape the gain knob of the m10 on 4 and use the pre amp for the amplifying of the mics.
Now the following, on the back of the M10 there are several options:
Mic Sensivity - hi / low
DPC - on /off
Rec level - manual or auto (I'll put this on auto)
What about the low cut filter? Off or On?
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Thanks for the tips sofar, it looks like I'm going to tape the gain knob of the m10 on 4 and use the pre amp for the amplifying of the mics.
Now the following, on the back of the M10 there are several options:
Mic Sensivity - hi / low
DPC - on /off
Rec level - manual or auto (I'll put this on auto)
What about the low cut filter? Off or On?
Mic sens hi
DPC off
Manual
No filter
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Thanks for the tips sofar, it looks like I'm going to tape the gain knob of the m10 on 4 and use the pre amp for the amplifying of the mics.
yes, great idea. about 6 months ago i started using tape to keep the gain wheel from moving when the M10 is in my pocket. the wheel is pretty stable without the tape, but it moved on me a couple of times without the tape. now i don't take any chances. for the control options on the back, whatever settings you choose tape those in place as well. whether you use a 1/8 inch cable with straight connector or right angle connector between the M10 and your preamp, tape that in place also.
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i would not set the level on your M10 below "3". less than "3" is very risky territory from my experience. i try to keep it between "4" and "5".
I think you are fine down to 2 (for sure) and probably 1.5. guysonic estimated 1 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.msg1722942#msg1722942 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.msg1722942#msg1722942)) and DSatz estimated 1.5 - 2 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.msg2014600#msg2014600 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.msg2014600#msg2014600)). Personally, I had to go to 1.5 once (mic-in) for a loud show, and didn't have any brick-walling (wouldn't make it a habit, though). I've recorded 6 or 7 shows in the 2 - 2.5 range (line-in), tickling the red LED, with no issues (my mics are really sensitive). Incidentally, the red lamp doesn't necessarily mean clipping; I've had it blink on several times during a recording with no clipping in the file...
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Thanks for the tips sofar, it looks like I'm going to tape the gain knob of the m10 on 4 and use the pre amp for the amplifying of the mics.
Now the following, on the back of the M10 there are several options:
Mic Sensivity - hi / low
DPC - on /off
Rec level - manual or auto (I'll put this on auto)
What about the low cut filter? Off or On?
Mic sens hi
DPC off
Manual
No filter
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Thanks for the tips sofar, it looks like I'm going to tape the gain knob of the m10 on 4 and use the pre amp for the amplifying of the mics.
Now the following, on the back of the M10 there are several options:
Mic Sensivity - hi / low
DPC - on /off
Rec level - manual or auto (I'll put this on auto)
What about the low cut filter? Off or On?
Mic sens hi
DPC off
Manual
No filter
Mic sens hi -- really?
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Thanks for the tips sofar, it looks like I'm going to tape the gain knob of the m10 on 4 and use the pre amp for the amplifying of the mics.
Now the following, on the back of the M10 there are several options:
Mic Sensivity - hi / low
DPC - on /off
Rec level - manual or auto (I'll put this on auto)
What about the low cut filter? Off or On?
Mic sens hi
DPC off
Manual
No filter
Mic sens hi -- really?
The Mic Sensitivity switch has no effect when using the line input, but yes... I would never recommend starting with the 'hi' setting if running Mic In.
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i would not set the level on your M10 below "3". less than "3" is very risky territory from my experience. i try to keep it between "4" and "5".
I think you are fine down to 2 (for sure) and probably 1.5. guysonic estimated 1 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.msg1722942#msg1722942 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.msg1722942#msg1722942)) and DSatz estimated 1.5 - 2 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.msg2014600#msg2014600 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.msg2014600#msg2014600)). Personally, I had to go to 1.5 once (mic-in) for a loud show, and didn't have any brick-walling (wouldn't make it a habit, though). I've recorded 6 or 7 shows in the 2 - 2.5 range (line-in), tickling the red LED, with no issues (my mics are really sensitive). Incidentally, the red lamp doesn't necessarily mean clipping; I've had it blink on several times during a recording with no clipping in the file...
i still think that anything below "3" on the gain wheel is asking for trouble, but it probably also depends on your choice of mics. can you sometimes get away with a lower gain setting? sure. can you count on always getting away with a lower setting? doubtful.
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BTW, it's good to know what you're setting.
Mic Sensitivity controls the preamp connected to the mic jack (and doesn't affect Line In). Hi boosts the incoming signal more than Low.
DPC is digital pitch control. You don't want anything messing with the pitch when you are recording. Make sure it's off.
Auto will try to maintain a steady volume level. In music, this is no good. And even if recording something like an interview, the auto boosts the background noise when no one is talking. I guess it's good for something, but I don't know what. Manual, manual, manual. If you do accidentally switch to Auto, the level display will change to white on black--try it for a second and see--so you'll be aware it's happening if you look at the display.
The low cut filter cuts out bass frequencies before they are recorded. While overly bass-heavy concerts are the unfortunate norm nowadays, it's better to get an accurate recording and cut the bass on playback. So...off. If supermegatectonic bass is overloading your mics, LCF won't help--it kicks in after the distortion is already there.
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i still think that anything below "3" on the gain wheel is asking for trouble, but it probably also depends on your choice of mics. can you sometimes get away with a lower gain setting? sure. can you count on always getting away with a lower setting? doubtful.
As I understand it, there is a kind of minimum safe gain setting. The M10's inputs will overload at some voltage. If your signal exceeds that, your recording will be distorted, regardless of gain setting. At that voltage (or just under it), there is a spot on the dial that will give you levels of 0 dBFS; if you have to put the gain lower than that to avoid going over, you will brickwall (you are reducing the levels of an already distorted signal). As I mentioned, that setting has been estimated as 1.5 - 2 (mic-in) and 1 (line-in). So you're pretty much good to go if you are below full-scale at/above those settings...
Here is a post from DSatz that explains this in detail: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152494.msg1930944#msg1930944 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152494.msg1930944#msg1930944).