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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: acidjack on February 17, 2013, 04:48:23 PM
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Many of us are probably interested in Jon's new very inexpensive, yet very versatile, X-R line of mics. I have installed them in a local venue and got to test drive them for the first time the other night. I thought it might be useful, as a reference point, to compare them against my Schoeps MK5s which were also installed in roughly the same location. My personal conclusions:
- These are very nice mics for the money
- If you get them, either order attenuators or ask Jon to mod them to be not too hot. My versions are the ones that have no bodies and instead terminate in PFAs at the end of 3ft cables. Plugged into the DR-40, with the input volume all the way down at zero, they still clipped some.
Why this comp is "totally invalid", so we don't have to have that conversation:
- Placement. The Schoeps were DIN on a kwonbar on a standard mount. The Naiants were taped down to the edges of the projector ledge the Schoeps were clamped to. So while both were pretty close in terms of vertical spacing (maybe half a foot or so), the Schoeps were spaced much more tightly and traditionally than the Naiants. The Naiants were at something like a super-wide NOS.
- Gear chain. Schoeps were Schoeps MK5 (cardiods, DIN)>KCY>PFA>USBPre2>R-44. The Naiants (also cardiods) were plugged directly into a Tascam DR-40. This may totally bug some of you, but it doesn't bug me because, well, I wasn't really setting out to prove that nice $150 homemade mics were the equivalent of or better than $4000 Schoeps - I just wanted potential buyers of the Naiants to have something to compare to.
I did no processing other than normalizing to -0.1dB. The Naiant sample still has higher overall RMS though.
So that as many folks as possible will check this out, I'm offering this in a few different formats, including totally invalid lossy ones:
FLAC sample 1: http://tinyurl.com/byjm2fl
FLAC sample 2: http://tinyurl.com/a7og89h
[Right-click then "Save As" to download]
MP3 sample 1: http://tinyurl.com/bawbo3x
MP3 sample 2: http://tinyurl.com/abdhxeq
[Click and they'll stream]
Soundcloud: (horribly lossy, but much easier to check out) https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc/sets/naiant-x-r-vs-schoeps-mk5-comp (https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc/sets/naiant-x-r-vs-schoeps-mk5-comp)
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Jon, I haven't run a CK61 other than once so I can't comment directly, but note that the MK5 is specifically designed by Schoeps to have a HF bump, similar to that of the MK4V. It is much brighter, for example, than a MK4 or a DPA 4021.
I thought the X-Rs were a bit brighter than the Schoeps still, but not painfully so.
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How do you know the nitrogen and oxygen gases in the venue's air were mixed the same at the moment in time that the sound waves contacted the two mic diaphragms?
Comp failure. ;)
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I know this wasn't the point of the comp, but what did you think of running mics directly into the DR-40 and using its onboard pres?
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I know this wasn't the point of the comp, but what did you think of running mics directly into the DR-40 and using its onboard pres?
I think it sounds fine, but the input sensitivity is pretty high and doesn't appear to be switchable. The Naiants are definitely hot- a common thing w John's mics IIRC- but even with the Schoeps run into the DR-40 for another band, it was close to clipping even with the input volume turned all the way down. The deck has a claimed "dual record" feature that records a second track at -12dB lower volume, but that does not appear to actually work.
If anyone here has a DR-40 and knows how to change the sensitivity, please let me know.
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Wowza those sound very similar. I think I like the punch and low end of the mk5 better even tho I'm not a fan of the HF bump in the mk5/mk4v. The Naiant mics are def killer sending and have a mellowed sound to them. The vocals are very clear on both too!!!
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Thanks for putting the comp together! I'll take a listen soon, hopefully later today.
I'm wondering what patterns were used though. Is this the mk5 in cardioid mode? Similarly, did you use the cardioid caps for the X-Rs or the omni caps?
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Thanks for putting the comp together! I'll take a listen soon, hopefully later today.
I'm wondering what patterns were used though. Is this the mk5 in cardioid mode? Similarly, did you use the cardioid caps for the X-Rs or the omni caps?
MK5 and X-Rs both cardiod. MK5 = DIN X-R = weird pattern with mics at roughly 90 degrees but a wider than NOS split.
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Nice "comp", thanks AJ!
I'm pretty impressed with how the XR-card sample sounds. I'd seen Jon's new mic, and the rolled off low end response according to his published graphs had me worried. I didn't notice that much difference between the low end response of the X-Rs compared to the mk5's.
Like AJ, I find the XRs brighter than the mk5's, but not objectionably so. I can hear the slight scooping in the upper mids/highs that matches the published freq plot that shows a dip in the 5k-10k region -- this might lead to the mellow sound Bean notices. Somewhat hard to describe, since I do find them brighter overall, but can hear this scooping in the upper mids-low highs. Might not be a bad thing anyway, since I often find myself wanting to reduce the 6K-7K region since vocals can sound a little harsh and have some Essing I want to tame.
Still, for fun I used a parametric EQ to bring up the lows a tad and bring up that 5-10k region a tad. EQ'd, the XRs brought in a bit more punch in the low end (which I liked), and filled in that scooping I heard -- which made them sound brighter still and I don't know I preferred that EQing. Overall though, they took slight EQing well and on the whole sounded very good for a low cost mic alternative.
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Man, those X-Rs sound great! I hear the scooping that Todd mentioned, but I think it helps with the vocals. Even though they're brighter than the MK5s, they aren't harsh, I found the high hat and cymbals to be quite pleasant.
AJ - get some omni caps and loan them to me. ;D Seriously, I bet they sound fantastic!
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Wowza those sound very similar. I think I like the punch and low end of the mk5 better even tho I'm not a fan of the HF bump in the mk5/mk4v. The Naiant mics are def killer sending and have a mellowed sound to them. The vocals are very clear on both too!!!
What the man said.
Surprising performance for a mic that costs about 8 times (am I right) less than the MKs!
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Wowza those sound very similar. I think I like the punch and low end of the mk5 better even tho I'm not a fan of the HF bump in the mk5/mk4v. The Naiant mics are def killer sending and have a mellowed sound to them. The vocals are very clear on both too!!!
What the man said.
Surprising performance for a mic that costs about 8 times (am I right) less than the MKs!
Closer to 30x less, actually. (Naiants: $150. Schoeps: $3500-4500 depending on config)
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Thanks for the comp. I think everybody realizes how "totally unscientific" this is, however, both samples seem to hold their own. The MK5's have a tad more clarity but it's not "night and day" like a lot of comparisons. The X-R's, for $150, are a steal. Now only if Jon can get them to run "less hot."
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Wowza those sound very similar. I think I like the punch and low end of the mk5 better even tho I'm not a fan of the HF bump in the mk5/mk4v. The Naiant mics are def killer sending and have a mellowed sound to them. The vocals are very clear on both too!!!
What the man said.
Surprising performance for a mic that costs about 8 times (am I right) less than the MKs!
Closer to 30x less, actually. (Naiants: $150. Schoeps: $3500-4500 depending on config)
I don't know what kind of totally wrong Maths I did but yeah, you're right of course! I had the figures in my mind (I was thinking of just 3000 for the Schoeps) but somehow got it totally wrong :P
Definitely impressive!
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Another recent recording with the X-R. This one is a matrix, but still useful: http://www.nyctaper.com/2013/03/the-night-marchers-march-2-2013-glasslands-flacmp3streaming/
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Maybe a bit OT, but how would you characterize the sound of the Naiant X-R (card) with the Naiant X-X (omni)? I'm wondering whether to add a set of cards to the rig.
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Kind of hard to say comparing an omni (with I think a totally different capsule) to a cardiod. I think the response of the cards seems flatter perhaps than the omni; the omni was lighter in the low-end than I expected while the card was pretty flat. But again, they're totally different capsules - it's kind of like comparing an AT853 to an AT933.
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^^ relative to the pattern generally? Because I found the omni "less bassy" than normal omnis whereas the cards were more comparable to a mic like the AT 853, which in its class I think of as fairly "flat"....