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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: time will tell on August 11, 2013, 12:40:59 AM
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So...... This past Thursday I recorded my first real show in a small club in Chicago. This was my third attempt at recording live music. The first show did not have a proper PA. The second show was outdoors and was really rather quiet. I learned quite a bit from both experiences. This show was indoors, smaller room but the sound in this place is very good.
I went to record a local Chicago band by the name of 'Bullet Called Life'. I recommend checking them out on the interweb. They are really great. As an added bonus, a band that I recently found out about by the name of the 'Crash Kings' were playing as well. They are touring nationally right now. They are pretty awesome. Kind of remind me of The Racontuers or The Cold War Kids. Anyway, I asked and received permission to record both bands.
I am running BSC-1's-->edirol UA5 (busmann Mod)-->tascam dr-2d. I had my mics set with no bass roll off, the db switch was set to 0. The edirol gain was at about 2 o'clock. The dr-2d was at 60 on the input. Running into the mic in. I was about 60 feet away from the stacks, dead center, with my mics split, pointing one at each stack. Probably about 12 inches between mics, roughly at a 60 degree angle.
My levels looked great on the dr-2d. No clipping at all on the ua5. Listening to them at home I have some noticeable bass distortion, especially when the drummer is doing a lot of Tom work. Some parts of the show sound very good, others not so much.
The other concerning thing is that when I loaded the wav into audacity, the wav form looked flat at the top and the bottom. I ran it through a high pass filter, after that it looks better, but the sound didn't get much better in the rough patches.
I am not sure what I did wrong. My plan is that next time I will use the -15db switch on the mics, turn them down to maybe 1 o'clock on the ua5 and use the dual record option on the dr-2d to grab another file with a pad on it.
Any advice that you guys could give would be helpful too.
I am planning on recording the crowes and ttb on Wednesday. I hope to get better results for that show.
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I haven't used the DR-2d in a while, but I think thats where your problem lies. Don't worry about engaging pads on the mics next time.
Checking back through the DR-2d thread, it is advised that you don't set the mic input level below 65 (possibly 67 to be safe).
Any reason you're running mic in? If the levels are set properly it probably won't matter, but unless you need the extra juice from the mic in (which you don't with the UA-5), I would personally stick to using line-in.
So, thats what I would try first next time. If you stick with mic in, set the level to 67 and adjust with the UA-5 as necessary to get decent levels. If you choose line-in, set the tascam at 95 and adjust the with UA-5 from there.
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I agree. I would DEF run the dr2d LINE-IN if youre using the ua5 as the preamp.
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As soon as you said "mic in" your problem became obvious.
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Thanks for the nudge fellas. I figured since I was using mics, I should go mic in.
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Use line in when using our church pre. Too
Only use mic in if you go with the 853 directly into the recorder
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Yes. I found that out lastnight. I am so new to this. I attempted to go line in with the ca9100 lastnight, but forgot to switch the source from mic to line in. I was seeing a signal but it wasn't coming from the at853...... Now I realize that the signal that I was seeing was coming from the internal mics. So long story short, I plugged back into the mic input. Ca9100 was at 5 o'clock, the input on the dr was at 97.........levels looked good? I obviously at this point have no clue what a good level looks like compared to a bad level.
Some of the show sounds great, the slower quieter songs. There is serious clipping during bass heavy songs or audience screaming. And I do mean screaming.....Taylor Swift has some loud screamers....everywhere.
Please don't judge me on the artist. I have children, I enjoy her music and I saw this as a good opportunity for a covert test run.
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I have run my mics > UA5 > Dr-2d (mic in) a few times when I sent a board feed to the Line In. The mic in vs: line in question seems to get a lot of mileage in discussions here.
In my experience with the DR-2d, if you follow the established setting guidelines for either input you should be ok.
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levels looked good? I obviously at this point have no clue what a good level looks like compared to a bad level.
It took me a long time to understand that when going mic in, you can get distortion going even when the levels look fine. As I understand it, it's not that you're getting "clipping" technically - what's happening is that the mic in is getting overloaded, so it's distorting before it ever gets to the recorder.
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When you run through mic-in you go through a preamplifier built into the recorder and the recorder sends a little bit of power out to the mic.
When you go through line-in neither of those is added, because the unit is expecting a stronger (line-level) input rather than a weak mic signal that needs a boost.
The mic-in preamplifier, tiny little thing that it is in a portable recorder, can overload, particularly with big bass. Since you have an external preamp, the UA5, you should go through line-in.
For loud shows you could also just use a battery box, which provides more power to the mics than the mic-in jack does, and go through line-in.
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I haven't used the DR-2d in a while, but I think thats where your problem lies. Don't worry about engaging pads on the mics next time.
Checking back through the DR-2d thread, it is advised that you don't set the mic input level below 65 (possibly 67 to be safe).
Any reason you're running mic in? If the levels are set properly it probably won't matter, but unless you need the extra juice from the mic in (which you don't with the UA-5), I would personally stick to using line-in.
So, thats what I would try first next time. If you stick with mic in, set the level to 67 and adjust with the UA-5 as necessary to get decent levels. If you choose line-in, set the tascam at 95 and adjust the with UA-5 from there.
I was running mic in because I was using a mic. I had not bothered to read the 42 pages on the dr-2d in its entirety. I did some searches and apparently missed the mark on input levels. As of this morning I did read the entire post on the dr-2d. That, along with the suggestions from you guys, I should be good going forward.
It's just a db shame that I screwed up the crash kings set. They were killing it. The crowd was fantastic too.
Thank you!
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To make things a bit clearer for you...
When you use a pre-amp (UA-5) you use the line in on the recorder, because the UA-5 outputs a line level signal. So, as far as mic in... you are going mic in on the UA-5, but line in to the recorder from the UA-5. In that context it should make a bit more sense.
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If you ever get mics that will run off a battery box you might want to consider going MIC-IN for QUIETER shows.
Good example would be 9V miniature mics > battery box > recorder (mic in).
I do this occasionally for quiet shows when your "technically not allowed to record."
The battery box will provide POWER to the mics, but does NOT bring the level up to a LINE level.
As other people have said, since the UA-5 brings the signal up to a LINE LEVEL you go LINE IN. The UA-5 will do 2 or 3 things. In your case it provides POWER to the mic and then brings it up to a LINE LEVEL. If you have a recorder with a digital input the UA-5 can also convert the ANALOG signal to a digital signal. As your running your recorder does the A>D conversion.
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And I do mean screaming.....Taylor Swift has some loud screamers....everywhere.
Please don't judge me on the artist. I have children, I enjoy her music and I saw this as a good opportunity for a covert test run.
I >:D'd my daughter's first show - Miley Cyrus. Angus Young has nothing on those screamers. My ears were ringing like ever after that. BTW, I found myself singing "Party In The USA" in the shower the next day.
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Nice.
At least I know that I am not alone.
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And I do mean screaming.....Taylor Swift has some loud screamers....everywhere.
Please don't judge me on the artist. I have children, I enjoy her music and I saw this as a good opportunity for a covert test run.
I >:D'd my daughter's first show - Miley Cyrus. Angus Young has nothing on those screamers. My ears were ringing like ever after that. BTW, I found myself singing "Party In The USA" in the shower the next day. HaHA!!!
I would love to hear that ;D