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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: tts42572 on September 23, 2013, 10:06:47 AM
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Wondering if anybody has any thoughts on a microphone to use with a Zoom H1 Recorder?
I'm on a budget of under $100 and just looking for a decent microphone to use that is somewhat stealthy. Mostly looking to record live music in some smaller venues. Honestly, don't think the stealth part is a huge deal...Mostly just being stealthy from my wife...LOL....But just don't want something that sticks out like a sore thumb or that I need to hold.
I'm new to the recording thing...Just sorta want something that is easy to deal with and that I can just clip on my shirt or something.
I've got a friend that has used a Sony ECM 719 combined with a Zoom H1 and has really gotten some good sounding recordings with that combination. Not sure the Sony ECM 719 is very "stealthy" but I suppose it would be okay to clip it to shirt pocket....
Just wondering if anybody had any other suggestions? I know I probably need to spend way more to get into the "big leagues"...But I'll be happy getting something halfway decent at this point that I can edit later.
Thanks.
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You can do better than the Sony, which is bulky, has a limited frequency response (i.e., not much bass) and is pretty noisy. It's cute and widely available but mail order gives you a big quality improvement.
If you can jack up the budget just slightly, and are willing to wait a few weeks, Church Audio's mics are a step up. I would be very curious to hear some recordings made with his new, improved CA-11.
Actually, looking at Chris' current prices--look no further and grab the CA-14 omni for $99...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=162852.0
Unless the Church Audio are on sale, the best mic under $100 in my experience is the SoundPro BMC-2, a pair of omni mics the size of pencil erasers.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2
Get them with clips, clip them to your shirt collar--which gives you a realistic stereo field because your shirt collar puts them about as wide apart as your ears--and you'll have very good recordings. Black clips, black mics, dark shirt--pretty stealthy. Also, get the extended warranty if you are going to be recording a lot: the wires are thin (for stealth) and if you're recording 3-4 times as week, as I do, they will wear out shortly before the three years are up, and you'll get a new pair that will give you another 3 years. Nice deal.
If you are going to loud shows, you may need a battery box to make the mics able to handle louder input--then you'd go mics-->battery box-->Line-in instead of Mic-in.
I have the SPSB-10 http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/310/mics but would be tempted by the SPSB-4 if it weren't a little too big for the camera pouch I put my recorder (Sony PCM-M10) in.
Try the mics first without a BB--it depends on how loud an input the Zoom can handle, something I don't know. The Church Audio mics are a little bigger than the SoundPro mics--like the tip of your thumb--but they can handle a louder show without a battery box.
I have CA-14 omnis now as my go-to mic, but I made hundreds of enjoyable recordings with the SP-BMC-2.
And by the way, where you put the mic when recording is really important. If you clip it to your shirt pocket, sound is being blocked by the back of that big dude standing in front of you. Mics sound best out in open air--either close to your ears, where they're hearing what you year, or even higher.
Next time you go to a show, duck down a little to the height of your shirt pocket, and you'll hear how much more muffled the sound gets, even with that slight change.
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Awesome info...Really appreciate it.
Leaning toward the SP-BMC-2....When you use those, do you generally use the wind screens over them? Most of my recording would happen indoors so not sure if they are necessary....Do windscreens help with some of the "boominess" at all....or just make it worse and more muffled?
I may investigate the Church Audio as well....I kinda like the smaller look of the SP-BMC-2 though....
I'd like to avoid the battery box if possible. Seems like shows are always "loud" and boomy though....So hope it wouldn't be a problem. Does adjusting the recording level input on the recorder itself to 40% or something usually help with this?
I also like the idea of clipping them to a shirt collar...Little easier than having that Sony ECM-719 clipped to a shirt pocket sticking out like a sore thumb.
Really appreciate the response. THANKS!
You can do better than the Sony, which is bulky, has a limited frequency response (i.e., not much bass) and is pretty noisy. It's cute and widely available but mail order gives you a big quality improvement.
If you can jack up the budget just slightly, and are willing to wait a few weeks, Church Audio's mics are a step up. I would be very curious to hear some recordings made with his new, improved CA-11.
Actually, looking at Chris' current prices--look no further and grab the CA-14 omni for $99...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=162852.0
Unless the Church Audio are on sale, the best mic under $100 in my experience is the SoundPro BMC-2, a pair of omni mics the size of pencil erasers.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2
Get them with clips, clip them to your shirt collar--which gives you a realistic stereo field because your shirt collar puts them about as wide apart as your ears--and you'll have very good recordings. Black clips, black mics, dark shirt--pretty stealthy. Also, get the extended warranty if you are going to be recording a lot: the wires are thin (for stealth) and if you're recording 3-4 times as week, as I do, they will wear out shortly before the three years are up, and you'll get a new pair that will give you another 3 years. Nice deal.
If you are going to loud shows, you may need a battery box to make the mics able to handle louder input--then you'd go mics-->battery box-->Line-in instead of Mic-in.
I have the SPSB-10 http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/310/mics but would be tempted by the SPSB-4 if it weren't a little too big for the camera pouch I put my recorder (Sony PCM-M10) in.
Try the mics first without a BB--it depends on how loud an input the Zoom can handle, something I don't know. The Church Audio mics are a little bigger than the SoundPro mics--like the tip of your thumb--but they can handle a louder show without a battery box.
I have CA-14 omnis now as my go-to mic, but I made hundreds of enjoyable recordings with the SP-BMC-2.
And by the way, where you put the mic when recording is really important. If you clip it to your shirt pocket, sound is being blocked by the back of that big dude standing in front of you. Mics sound best out in open air--either close to your ears, where they're hearing what you year, or even higher.
Next time you go to a show, duck down a little to the height of your shirt pocket, and you'll hear how much more muffled the sound gets, even with that slight change.
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You don't need windscreens indoors, no. They're supposed to be acoustically transparent; they won't cut down on boominess.
A recording can overload at 2 points: the mic itself and the preamp in the recorder. (Mic-in means the signal goes through a preamp, and it usually means the recorder supplies a little bit of power to the mics as well.)
If the mics overload, it doesn't matter what you're doing with the gain on the recorder--the signal is overloaded before it gets there. So you could be showing non-overload levels on the recording meter and still getting an overloaded recording. That's what the battery box is for: it provides extra power to the mics, which helps prevent them overloading with loud sounds.
If the mics aren't overloading, the preamp can still overload. You prevent that by turning down the gain and making sure it is peaking below overload. You really just have to see how your particular unit responds in the places you are recording. BTW, concerts tend to get louder as they go--they save the big noise for the end--so it's better to start on the low side.
Looking at Chuch Audio yet again, an excellent mic for $99 plus $29 for his UBB (ugly battery box) is about the same as a SoundPro mic for $69 (with clips) plus another $59 for their battery box. It's the better deal. The mics are a little larger, but still not gigantic, the sound really is better, and they are made for louder shows--that is, they are low sensitivity, an option (vs. high sensitivity) on some mics, though I didn't see it on the BMC-2.
If you and your friend with the Sony mic record the same show, he will throw his mic out when he hears yours.
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I just have one tidbit of info. Sometimes you DO need screens indoors. If there is AC In the venue, you def need screens. Not all the time but why risk an otherwise great recording? I use the Large DPA screens!
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^^^I can second that awesome advice. Not much to add. Don't buy Sony mics, buy Soundpro's or Church Audio (if you catch a sale) with a battery box. IMHO CA are better value for money than SP models for the same price.
I would not place mics on shirt collar. Higher = better. Ear level of higher. But you can experiment yourself.
It may be possible to make a good recording without a bbox if your recorder provides plugin power to the mics. I've made some excellent jazz recordings without a battery box on recorder's 3V plugin power (CA-14 mics). But there's always a risk to get a distorted recording if the show is loud. There's simple bbox sold by Church Audio for $29. It's as cheap as you can get.
EDIT: and hell yeah, $99 for CA-14 is a killer deal! CA-14's are better or comparable to any sub $500 mics (IMHO). For $99 I would not even think about it.
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On a budget, I'd second the SP-BMC-2. I acquired a pair for $10 in a SP sale a couple of years ago and use them for back up recordings when I REALLY want to make sure I get a capture. I'm always happy with the result.
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It may be possible to make a good recording without a bbox if your recorder provides plugin power to the mics. I've made some excellent jazz recordings without a battery box on recorder's 3V plugin power (CA-14 mics). But there's always a risk to get a distorted recording if the show is loud. There's simple bbox sold by Church Audio for $29. It's as cheap as you can get.
EDIT: and hell yeah, $99 for CA-14 is a killer deal! CA-14's are better or comparable to any sub $500 mics (IMHO). For $99 I would not even think about it.
Agree agree agree agree agree
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I just have one tidbit of info. Sometimes you DO need screens indoors. If there is AC In the venue, you def need screens. Not all the time but why risk an otherwise great recording? I use the Large DPA screens!
I've had ceiling fans completely wreck a tape when I forgot to bring windscreens along. Small clubs often use ceiling fans especially if they allow smoking inside...
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I just have one tidbit of info. Sometimes you DO need screens indoors. If there is AC In the venue, you def need screens. Not all the time but why risk an otherwise great recording? I use the Large DPA screens!
I've had ceiling fans completely wreck a tape when I forgot to bring windscreens along. Small clubs often use ceiling fans especially if they allow smoking inside...
Exactly my point ;) It doesnt matter if you're running $100 Church Audio mics, or 2k caps like the Schoeps! Why risk a recording for a $50/pair of DPA UA0896 Windscreens ??? ;) 8) And outdoors I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND the Shure A81WS Heavy Duty Windscreens ;) Thats all you NEED screen-wise ;) Its def worth the $100+ they cost!!!