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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: harmon712 on October 01, 2013, 11:58:42 PM
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I have a Zoom H4n and am looking to get mics & a stand but not sure what to get. I would like to stay under $400.
I was looking into these SP-CMC-8 or mics with a 3.5mm input to use when I can do a SBD and use the mics together.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-8
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Do you want to use these for open taping only, or both open and stealth?
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Do you want to use these for open taping only, or both open and stealth?
Open only
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it's hard to go wrong with a pair of Busman's. great mics at an affordable price point (http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc1.html). new they a rw little bit over your stated budget, but used they would be much closer to your budget. just a suggestion.
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I was looking into these SP-CMC-8 or mics with a 3.5mm input to use when I can do a SBD and use the mics together.
Wouldn't it make more sense to send the SBD signal to the 3.5mm, and use the p48 xlr inputs for your mics?
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You might try the AKG "blueline" e.g. se300b and either the ck91 (card), or, more likely, the mk93 (hyper). These come up used sometimes.
But frankly, I'd save up a little more for better microphones.
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it's hard to go wrong with a pair of Busman's. great mics at an affordable price point (http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc1.html). new they a rw little bit over your stated budget, but used they would be much closer to your budget. just a suggestion.
I might look into the BSC1 when I get the money saved.
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Studio Projects C4 MKii at $350 is a great way to get started if you're talking about new microphones within your budget.
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it's hard to go wrong with a pair of Busman's. great mics at an affordable price point (http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc1.html). new they a rw little bit over your stated budget, but used they would be much closer to your budget. just a suggestion.
I might look into the BSC1 when I get the money saved.
Busman usually had better pricing on here for ts members than on his website. The last thing he posted in the retail forum was last year selling the BSC-1 kit for $375. The Avantone CK-1 with multiple caps can be had relatively cheap and I've heard many good tapes made with them: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=867157&is=REG&Q=&A=details
They may even look really familiar!
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I'll chime in. Definitely agree with the Busman BSC1's and the AKG SE-300B / CK91's.
I would recommend checking out the "Yard Sale" on the site.
There is a sweet pair of Audio-Technica AT4051's out there now. The seller is asking $600 (a little above your price point). If I had the means and the need, I'd snatch them up.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164365.0
You could also get something like the Audio-Technica AT8022 stereo microphone, if you wanted an easy all-in-one solution.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/602080-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8022_AT8022_X_Y_Stereo_Phantom.html
HTH
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I have actually seen some 4051's going for less on Ebay. I run them all the time, and love them, plus you can get hyper and omni caps.
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Mostly singles, but mostly under 200 each:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_sop=15&_nkw=audio+technica+4051&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc
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Be a bit careful if you go for AT4051s. There are three models: 4051, 4051a, and 4051b. I expect that the most recent model, the 4051b, will usually cost a bit more than the two earlier models. Frankly, I think all three models are good mics, but the models are not interchangeable. I have the 4051a and like them a lot. The 4053 hyper is a great mic as well.
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Thanks for all the info, I think I'm going to go with Busman Audio BSC1
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Good choice. I have had mine for a year now and love them. Made some great pulls with them, and they price point versus they quality they deliver is a great value. I am sure you will enjoy them! ;D
I power mine using a Naiant Tinybox, are you powering them with a preamp or from your recorder?
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Good choice. I have had mine for a year now and love them. Made some great pulls with them, and they price point versus they quality they deliver is a great value. I am sure you will enjoy them! ;D
I power mine using a Naiant Tinybox, are you powering them with a preamp or from your recorder?
I was thinking about a Lunatec V3 if I can find one. Might have to look into something else and maybe start with just the recorder.
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I don't know why, if you have that kind of money to spend, you would limit yourself to $400 for the mics, yet spend $800+ for a V3. I love my V3, but you could definitely get more expensive mics and get the Naiant Tinybox (which I also own and love :)).
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I have no idea what to get for a preamp.
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ART USB Dual Pre?
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The Church Audio and Naiant preamps appear to have a more loyal following on TS.
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Good choice. I have had mine for a year now and love them. Made some great pulls with them, and they price point versus they quality they deliver is a great value. I am sure you will enjoy them! ;D
I power mine using a Naiant Tinybox, are you powering them with a preamp or from your recorder?
What kind of cables would I need for Busman BSC1 > Naiant Tinybox > Zoom H4n?
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ART USB Dual Pre?
I have one, they are actually very nice for the price. I have some lma recordings with them and I have had great success with it!
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Good choice. I have had mine for a year now and love them. Made some great pulls with them, and they price point versus they quality they deliver is a great value. I am sure you will enjoy them! ;D
I power mine using a Naiant Tinybox, are you powering them with a preamp or from your recorder?
What kind of cables would I need for Busman BSC1 > Naiant Tinybox > Zoom H4n?
When I bought my TinyBox from Naiant, I got two cables - one that has an end with mini XLR to plug into the Tinybox, and left/right regualr XLRs which plug into the Busman bsc1 bodies. This cable allows the Tinybox to provide P48 phantom power to the mics and power them. The second cable is a mini XLR for the Tinybox end and terminated to a 3.5mm stereo miniplug female, which I use to plug in the smaller Church Audio CA14s. This cable lowers the voltage and supplies the CA mics with about 9v to operate.
When you order a Tinybox you can get the cables you need from them as well.
The recorder I use has only 3.5mm inputs, so I use a 3.5 mm output on the TInybox and use a short 3.5 > 3.5 miniplug cable to connect the recorder to line or mic in. For your H4n I think you have miniplug and XLR ins, so you may need a different configuration of tinybox to output XLR? Jon at Naiant can let you know what you need.
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There is a sweet Naiant Littlebox in the Yard Sale for ~$300. I ran a Littlebox for many years and loved it.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164732.0
There is also a Denecke PS-2 in the YS for $100.
Either should treat you right.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=162742.0
You can also likely find an Edirol UA-5 in the YS or on eBay. A lot of people used those for a long time. Busman and the Oade Brothers modded a lot of them.
Here is a UA-5 on eBay for $75.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edirol-Audio-Capture-UA-5-24bit-96kHz-USB-Audio-Interface-USED-/360751810043
HTH
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Good choice. I have had mine for a year now and love them. Made some great pulls with them, and they price point versus they quality they deliver is a great value. I am sure you will enjoy them! ;D
I power mine using a Naiant Tinybox, are you powering them with a preamp or from your recorder?
What kind of cables would I need for Busman BSC1 > Naiant Tinybox > Zoom H4n?
When I bought my TinyBox from Naiant, I got two cables - one that has an end with mini XLR to plug into the Tinybox, and left/right regualr XLRs which plug into the Busman bsc1 bodies. This cable allows the Tinybox to provide P48 phantom power to the mics and power them. The second cable is a mini XLR for the Tinybox end and terminated to a 3.5mm stereo miniplug female, which I use to plug in the smaller Church Audio CA14s. This cable lowers the voltage and supplies the CA mics with about 9v to operate.
When you order a Tinybox you can get the cables you need from them as well.
The recorder I use has only 3.5mm inputs, so I use a 3.5 mm output on the TInybox and use a short 3.5 > 3.5 miniplug cable to connect the recorder to line or mic in. For your H4n I think you have miniplug and XLR ins, so you may need a different configuration of tinybox to output XLR? Jon at Naiant can let you know what you need.
if you go the Tinybox route i highly reccomend the P48 dual XLR > 6-pin mini XLR adapter. it works great.
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Touching base on your OP, I think most people's opinion are AT933 series (aka CMC8) mics offer no improvement over the AT853 mics, and many people prefer the sound of 853's over 933's. I just wanted to point that out. Original AT853's with phantom adapters and 25' cables actually sound great, and they are cheap.... I've bought them on ebay for as little as $50 each, and I still run them some times. If you run them into the 1/8" jack you'll probably want the 4.7k mod which has been explained many times on this board. If you run them by phantom adapters you don't need that. you could make them "convertible", running with phantom adapters, or with a 4.7K Y-cable.
Someone asked "why not use mics on the XLR's and feed the board via 1/8?" We have a local taper who also runs FOH (Davis) and he does that with his H4n. The 1/8" input won't take a hot signal, he tells me he has to back his feed off by about 50db compared to what he would normally give the rest of us for a feed. Since he is running the board, he adjusts the feed accordingly and runs mics on his XLR's. Without that control, you'll want heavy attenuation.
Just my 2 cents worth. And another vote for the AKG 391's.
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Just my 2 cents worth. And another vote for the AKG 391's.
I have to agree here. My first "real" set of mics were AKG SE300B / CK91's (aka 391's) and I loved (and still) love them. I was lucky enough to score a mint set in the Yard Sale for about $400.
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ditto on the akg se300b's I love mine. If you can squeeze out another $100 you can get a set of 391's with the active cables for $250 each (OBO) on ebay...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AKG-CK91-Cadioid-Mic-with-SE300-B-Power-Supply-and-Extension-Cable-C391-B-/261251590917?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item3cd3ceeb05 (http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/AKG-CK91-Cadioid-Mic-with-SE300-B-Power-Supply-and-Extension-Cable-C391-B-/261251590917?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item3cd3ceeb05)
This is an unreal deal IMO...and you can also grab a set of ck93's (hypers) and ck92's (onmis) down the road as well.
Also, for the Zoom H4N I would use the 1/4" ins on the device. Tinybox will have an 1/8" stereo out in which case you would need a 1/8" stereo to dual 1/4" cable for the H4N. Run this all the time works great. You also have the option to just go XLR in to the Zoom until you find a great deal on a preamp
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That link didn't work, per se. This should take you there.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261251590917
I would agree, this is *one hell of a deal*!!
If you are not in the know, "actives" make for an easier set up and tear down. Rather than running full-sized mics, with bodies, you only run the capsules (aka caps) in the air. I have gone "active" and it makes all the difference.
This is one hell of a deal. Nothing against the Busman mics, but I would take these any day of the week!
HTH
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I'm going to save the money and get the mics first then figure out the preamp after I get the mics.
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I'm going to save the money and get the mics first then figure out the preamp after I get the mics.
Smart move ;) Mics, then preamps, then recorders
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I was looking into the Naiant Tinybox again and sent them a email to see what I would need and got the back from them...
"You don't need a tinybox for those mics and recorder; the Busmans will connect directly to the H4n." ???
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I was looking into the Naiant Tinybox again and sent them a email to see what I would need and got the back from them...
"You don't need a tinybox for those mics and recorder; the Busmans will connect directly to the H4n." ???
Yeah, because the H4N has a pair of XLR Inputs, so you dont NEED an external preamp, you could just go Busman mics>Zoom H4N ;) BUT, Zoom recorders arent really liked too much on good ole taperssection.com! I am not a hater per se, but I would NEVER actually buy a Zoom product :P :( Sorry, just keeping it real and giving you MY opinion ;)
I would still get a TinyBox if I were you. IF you can afford it ;) I text Phil Zone all the time, and he runs Busman BSC1 Mics>Naiant Littlebox with Output Transformers>Sony PCM-M10, and IMO, for a starter rig, it sounds damn fine! If you already have the Zoom H4N, you could still get a Tinybox with Output Transformers and see if you like that combo ;) Go on archive.org and listen to some of Phil Zone's recordings and see what you think of them?!?!?! The H4N is relatively new isnt it? I doubt there are many samples out there with the H4Ns built in preamps, so you would kinda be a guinea pig, especially since I doubt there are ANY Busman BSC1 Mics>Directly into H4N ;) Never know tho! There might be some mics>H4N recordings on archive.org :)
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I was looking into the Naiant Tinybox again and sent them a email to see what I would need and got the back from them...
"You don't need a tinybox for those mics and recorder; the Busmans will connect directly to the H4n." ???
Yeah, because the H4N has a pair of XLR Inputs, so you dont NEED an external preamp, you could just go Busman mics>Zoom H4N ;) BUT, Zoom recorders arent really liked too much on good ole taperssection.com! I am not a hater per se, but I would NEVER actually buy a Zoom product :P :( Sorry, just keeping it real and giving you MY opinion ;)
I would still get a TinyBox if I were you. IF you can afford it ;) I text Phil Zone all the time, and he runs Busman BSC1 Mics>Naiant Littlebox with Output Transformers>Sony PCM-M10, and IMO, for a starter rig, it sounds damn fine! If you already have the Zoom H4N, you could still get a Tinybox with Output Transformers and see if you like that combo ;) Go on archive.org and listen to some of Phil Zone's recordings and see what you think of them?!?!?! The H4N is relatively new isnt it? I doubt there are many samples out there with the H4Ns built in preamps, so you would kinda be a guinea pig, especially since I doubt there are ANY Busman BSC1 Mics>Directly into H4N ;) Never know tho! There might be some mics>H4N recordings on archive.org :)
There's alot of bsc1 > h4n and bsc1 & h4n with other preamps, no tinybox that i can find.
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I have some recordings up on the archive, that are bsc1 > Tinybox > tascam recorder. I know it isn't a H4n, but it is just doing the digital recording part, so it would still be a valid comparison for you to hear the bsc1>tinybox sound.
http://archive.org/search.php?query=Colin%20Waldschutz%20AND%20bsc1%20AND%20collection%3Aetree (http://archive.org/search.php?query=Colin%20Waldschutz%20AND%20bsc1%20AND%20collection%3Aetree)
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I have bsc 1s and I run them into a Littlebox, and the sound is great!
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I'll chime in for the unorthodox M-Audio Pulsar II matched set.
no interchangeable caps. Just fixed cards. They sound really, really nice. Flat and smooth. IMO, no comparison to the AKG bluelines which are more expensive.
But, that's me.
I have owned my set since 2008. I have never owned ANYTHING in this hobby for that long.
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Busman BSC1's for open, Mine of course for stealth l :P
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Busman BSC1's for open, Mine of course for stealth l :P
Sounds just right to me!!! ;D