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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Phil Zone on October 12, 2013, 02:45:07 PM
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What is everyones opinion on each of these? whats better? pros and cons of each? this is both in stock condition, no mods...
also whats easier to power? dependability? ease of use? anything!
thanks for the opinions or facts
cam
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So is the DR80 two DR-40's strapped together :facepalm:
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So is the DR80 two DR-40's strapped together :facepalm:
What a joke :P sorry for the typo it's the 680
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the R-44 is a rock solid, no frills 4-channel workhorse of a recorder. it plays well will external power supplies and the stock pre-amps aren't too bad. the DR-680 has up to 8 channels i believe, it has more bells and whistles and it costs less. in terms of size and portability it's a draw. the R-44 gets my vote, but there really is no wrong answer. i think it comes down to personal choice.
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I traded in my R-44 for a 680 (and some cash!) because I do a lot of 6 and 8 channel stuff. Both good machines, but if you ever want to do more than 4 tracks--like throwing an onstage pair in with the SBD and AUD--it should be an easy decision.
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......but if you ever want to do more than 4 tracks--like throwing an onstage pair in with the SBD and AUD--it should be an easy decision.
Yep, easy decision.......link two r-44 machines to get 8 channels ;D :laugh:
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......but if you ever want to do more than 4 tracks--like throwing an onstage pair in with the SBD and AUD--it should be an easy decision.
Yep, easy decision.......link two r-44 machines to get 8 channels ;D :laugh:
I know this opens up an old disagreement(not between us two captains). My real world experience using two R-44's in 2009 was the clocks were not locked together by the sync cable. It only controlled the transports start and stop functions. Something that at the time was confirmed by a tech at Edirol(now roland). I also know others have had luck using two units together. now if that was pure luck that they matched, or if in fact Edirol had made changes I cannot say. The tech at Edirol basically said well DUH, of course the two clocks didn't match, there is no guarantee that two of the exact same machines clock will match. AND I have also seen a Marantz CD burner run dead on with my Tascam DR-680 with no sync cord or clocking interface. I only bring this up in light of the fact you mentioned using two R-44's. Because when I did that it left me with hours of time stretching work. I also cite the year since the view on the fact the sync cable does lock the clocks came over a year after that outing...ymmv
I can chime in on reliability. I have never had an issue although there are others that have. One of the smoking guns in the failure of the 680 seemed to center around the AUTO sensing voltage of a Tekkeon battery pack. And I also seem to recal that running the deck over 12 volts can fry things too. The 680 claim for 8 tracks is a bit misleading as you will need a preamp that has spdif output to get channels 7&8. AND IT MUST be compatible with the 680. not all preamps are. I feeel the preamps on the 680 to be a little better than the R-44 which felt a little grainy to my ears. for ease of use the R-44 is a no brainer, if you can hit record on a cassette deck you can run an R-44.
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What kirk said.
You can get 6ch out of 2 r44s that are clocked by sending 2 spdif from one to the other (so you get 4 analog on the first one, and 2 on the second), and you can increase that to a full 8 if you are creative and use a usbpre2 between the two.
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Is it something as weird as people not using a 1/8 TRS to sync the r-44's? I mean, are people trying to sync with a TS? There has to be a use for that third conductor.....two for start mode sensing, one for clock pulses...?
There's a slight time shift in the start times of the .wav files between my two machines, but you can believe me, these files are all running the same clock.
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I would have to think's it's luck that the clocks are in sync
You may be able to test this by getting two decks with clocks that seem to be synced (or are probably better matched in reality) and sync the first deck to an external AD that is not "matched"; connect the second deck via an "approved" sync cable and see if the second deck drifts - if it is drifting then the clocks absolutely do not sync via the sync cable
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Easier test requiring no extra equipment:
Run both machines in record mode simultaneously but seperately for a signifcantly extended time (like over night for 12 hrs), with a clap at the start and end of the test recording. File splits shouldn't matter.
Do the same again with them linked/slaved together.
Align the files and check for drift. Unless the clocks are actually locked, there is no way you would see zero drift down at the sample level over the course of a 12hr recording even if the clocks were so closely matched that the difference isn't detectible with a typical ~2 hour music recording.
[edit- a beter solution than linking R-44s is an R-88. :P]
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mmmm, r-88 8)
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mmmm, r-88 8)
i don't think we've received any "real world" feedback about the new R-88. who's gonna be the guinnea pig? hopefully Edirol did not release the R-88 with known bugs or potential operational issues in the field. it could be a great machine, but for the price i would need to know that it's rock solid before i would even consider buying one. the R-44 gives me everything that i need for my taping needs, so i doubt that i'll ever make the jump to a R-88 regardless of reliability and/or performance.
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just wait.... you can always use the channels if you try... :-[
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mmmm, r-88 8)
i don't think we've received any "real world" feedback about the new R-88. who's gonna be the guinnea pig? hopefully Edirol did not release the R-88 with known bugs or potential operational issues in the field. it could be a great machine, but for the price i would need to know that it's rock solid before i would even consider buying one. the R-44 gives me everything that i need for my taping needs, so i doubt that i'll ever make the jump to a R-88 regardless of reliability and/or performance.
Nobody here on TS apparently has one as far as I can tell but a couple people on Gearslutz have them and seem to be saying positive things. But very limited usage so far.
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just wait.... you can always use the channels if you try... :-[
i'm sure i could. that's what i'm afraid of. ;)
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Nobody here on TS apparently has one as far as I can tell but a couple people on Gearslutz have them and seem to be saying positive things.
Good to hear, thanks.
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it almost feels like I've developed an emotional attachment to my R-44. I find myself staring at my bag during a show sometimes and thinking how happy it makes me to have such a solid machine in there. this after only a beer or two as well :P
Been thinking about a 4+ channel second recorder lately. 680 prices are very tempting and seems like many people find the pres cleaner than the r-44 but the r-44 is just so reliable.
And R-88... I've seen and fiddled a bit with Page's hs-p82 and it's very nice. I especially like the double cf cards and the results can't be argued with, but I feel loyal to Roland now! Not in the budget now in any case tho so decision I can put off.
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it almost feels like I've developed an emotional attachment to my R-44.
I can understand that, I had a similar reaction with my 722. It was sort of a bittersweet day when I decided to buy the hs-p82.
To be fair, I don't have brand loyalty, I have brand affinity (hence why I own a tascam now and not a 788). I have a set of values, a budget, and a goal. Once I reconcile the order of priority there, I pick the best tool for the job with only minor consideration for brand specifics.
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I'm the resident hater of the DR-680 here, based on the now-three bricked decks I have owned or been involved with, including one that was used only indoors on AC power and bricked after less than a month.
In my experience:
R-44: Simpler, more reliable controls, simpler menus, rock solid
680: More complex controls (just read the what, six + pages of threads of people trying to figure out basic things), significant powering issues, finicky digital input, generally unreliable.
The 680 has four more channels for half the price, assuming you can get it to work reliably. That's the argument for it, plain and simple. In my experience, you get what you pay for.
If you just want a bunch of channels and don't really care about losing recordings here or there or having things mysteriously not work or having the deck just die, then at half the price for twice the channels the 680 is an awesome deal. Some of the folks here use them are professionals, IIRC, and I wouldn't discount their opinions by any means. I can only speak to my experience, and unless someone here works for Tascam corporate, everyone else here can only speak to theirs.
The accepted norm here, whether right or wrong, is that once there is enough of that anecdotal information about a product, you have something to go on. That presumption has led to things over time like none of the folks here using Zoom recorders, even though Zoom makes reasonably priced decks with lots of features (which lots of other tapers that don't read this site seem perfectly happy to use, BTW). To me, the DR-680 (not necessarily everything made by Tascam, though arguably, a lot of things made by Tascam) is in the same category as their products.
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Re: 680:
generally unreliable
I don't think that's a fair assessment. Yes, some people have had issues, but they seem to be relatively isolated. I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I've been using mine for several months without any issues.
And even the controls are pretty straightforward for most tasks. Arming channels, setting levels, setting up a mix, etc is all a piece of cake.
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I own and use both and consider the 680 to be reliable, as long as it's not a problematic one out of the gate. The R44 is undoubtedly simpler and easier to use, but that's not why it's the one I take for more demanding environments when 4 channels is enough.
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Perhaps we need to have a R44 vs DR680 demolition derby to settle this extremely tedious debate once and for all.
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I own and use both and consider the 680 to be reliable, as long as it's not a problematic one out of the gate. The R44 is undoubtedly simpler and easier to use, but that's not why it's the one I take for more demanding environments when 4 channels is enough.
Lee, you didn't actually say why...
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OK- Smaller, simpler, less to go wrong, faster to record, no reported hot weather problems, simplier file structure that does not require writing any system files or folders to use any properly formatted SC card, proven reliable for me in year-in/year-out for years, including 5 years at Bear Creek way FOB or stage-lip in the the very thick of it for 4+ days of dusty, cold, hot, bag/stand quickly lifted out of the way as horn players jump off the stage and over it or if something else happens and I need to bolt, vibrating impact zone conditions with the lightweight portable surround rig.
When I take the 680 it outside, it stays put in the big bag under the staked down stand.
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I'm the resident hater of the DR-680 here, based on the now-three bricked decks I have owned or been involved with, including one that was used only indoors on AC power and bricked after less than a month.
i'm not quite a DR-680 "hater", but my experience was also bad. i had two of them and when using external power (and not just with a Tekkeon) both units would overheat and shutdown after about an hour of use. if i let the 680 sit for about 10 minutes it would come back to life, but it was consistently unreliable. as someone else stated, if you get a DR-680 that works right out of the gate you're probably ok. i wasn't willing to gamble with a third DR-680 so i switched to a R-44. the R-44 has been a totally reliable workhorse. for me, the extra money that i paid for the R-44 is more than worth the peace of mind.
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OK- Smaller, simpler, less to go wrong, faster to record, no reported hot weather problems, simplier file structure that does not require writing any system files or folders to use any properly formatted SC card, proven reliable for me in year-in/year-out for years, including 5 years at Bear Creek way FOB or stage-lip in the the very thick of it for 4+ days of dusty, cold, hot, bag/stand quickly lifted out of the way as horn players jump off the stage and over it or if something else happens and I need to bolt, vibrating impact zone conditions with the lightweight portable surround rig.
When I take the 680 it outside, it stays put in the big bag under the staked down stand.
See, now don't you feel better to get that all out..? ;D
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I treat the DR-680 more gingerly since I'm aware of the problems others have had with it, thanks to this site. Ironically, my DR-680 is behaving fine and the R44 has been having problems recently, but my R-44 has many more miles on it. The first R44 issue I had was an intermittant card recognition problem and cleaning the card reader contacts with deoxit took care of that, the current issue is a power up problem. It takes lots of power button pressing to and "warming up of the blue power button light" get it to boot. I suspect a dirty switch contact or bad power supply capacitor but haven't looked into it yet.
All the the reliability data points we have on these machines are based around the anecdotal reports of individual users. No singular experinece or opinion is determines truth here, but one can determine trends in the collective experinces of everyone who reports in these threads, and I think that's what is most useful.
It's ultimately the reader's responsibility to make that differentiation. Some posters will extrapolate their singular experience to apply broadly, instead of being one datapoint among others here. Of course when a few members have multiple units fail on them, that makes their experience more influential to my opinion of, and comfort level with, the equipment in question.
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I'm pretty rough with my DR680. A month ago, I taped in a downpour. Two weeks ago, it was a moshpit. I frequently run it with dvd batteries, and usually forget to load up the aa's. I'm bad with my media--rarely formatting cards. I'm reluctant to say this, since it will most likely jinx me, but the only problem I have EVER had was with an SD card, NEVER with the deck. For me, switching from the R44 to the DR680 has definitely been the right call.
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I treat all my decks with equal good care, but just being surrounded by lots of alcohol fueled people always means there is danger afoot. My DR680 has never had an issue. I own quite a few Tascam decks and quite a few in general. I do not find the deck flimsy or fragile at all. I know from user reports that this might not be the best deck in a bag covered up on a 100 plus degree day, and I also know not to use a Tekkeon variable voltage battery, both valuable insights. That said, I do keep AA's in the unit and I expect it to perform and it always has. I find the Sony M10 far more fragile, having to worry about the card being seated correctly, being careful with the battery door, recording levels and switches needing to be taped in place, so everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
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I'm pretty rough with my DR680. A month ago, I taped in a downpour. Two weeks ago, it was a moshpit. I frequently run it with dvd batteries, and usually forget to load up the aa's. I'm bad with my media--rarely formatting cards. I'm reluctant to say this, since it will most likely jinx me, but the only problem I have EVER had was with an SD card, NEVER with the deck. For me, switching from the R44 to the DR680 has definitely been the right call.
I echo this post 8) ^^^ No special treatment at all. And I run it in a pretty tight leather bag with no ventilation at all. I even got two of them.
Started out with an R-44 and don't get me wrong that deck is a sold performer. I also think that comparing the R-44 and DR-680 is an apples to oranges comparison. The 680 can do things that the R-44 will never ever be able to do. They only "close" comparison is price point. The R-44 is hands down the easiset way to enter the "multitrack" (more than two track) arena. You can pretty much take it out of the box put batteries in it and record a show without ever looking at the manual. The thing I did find out in short order after I got my R-44 was the fact I was wanting MORE than four tracks. The R-44 is sold and when paired with a digital output from a high end preamp and really deliver the goods. But IMHO the 680 has slightly better pre's and A/d section besides the obvious extra tracks
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I pocketed the $500 I didn't spend on a R-44 and pull gold with my DR680...the only issue I've had was user over estimation of remaining Li-ion Battery power and forgetting to put AA's in the base.
Now...could or would I be happy with a R-44...90% or more of the time yes...rarely do I run 6 channels...but I have and loved the result. Is the R-44 easier to run...yes the first few times...Is the R-44 easier to adjust levels - on this point I concur that Yes the R-44 is easier to adjust...is the R-44 lower profile - Yes...do you prefer the meters of the R-44 or DR-680 - well the R-44 is better but eh I do just fine with the DR-680 meters.
On occasion I run into the stock Preamp (I use a Grace V2 usually)...it sounds fine and have ran a whole festival with out the V2 and not sure anyone would know the difference if I had or not.
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what batteries do you all use with your 680s? and how long do they last?
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what batteries do you all use with your 680s? and how long do they last?
DVD battery depends on the amperage
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what batteries do you all use with your 680s? and how long do they last?
DVD battery depends on the amperage
does anyone know the mah draw of these? the second i get mine im going to figure it out
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Is the R-44 easier to adjust levels - on this point I concur that Yes the R-44 is easier to adjust...
[snip] ...do you prefer the meters of the R-44 or DR-680 - well the R-44 is better but eh I do just fine with the DR-680 meters.
R-44 gain adjustment is simpler in that you needn't push a button make gain adjustmet, just turn the knobs.
DR-680 is easier to adjust gains across all channels equally and simultaneously while recording- do it with a single knob.
The meters of both are rather crappy but sufficient. At least the R-44 has indication of dBFS on the meters, yet the DR-680 -16dB line (or is it -18dB, I can't remember) is sufficient to use as a live recording target.
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what batteries do you all use with your 680s? and how long do they last?
I use DVD batteries, but not sure how long they last, as I've never come close to running out. Even with p48 on 4 channels, I can't imagine needing more than 2 batteries for 3 sets of music.
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what batteries do you all use with your 680s? and how long do they last?
Go to for all but festivals is a Batterygeek 10-14-100 12v fixed 100wh. I run 12hrs and recharge. When I'm at Festivals I have a Tekkeon myPower All Plus MP3450i Instrument Battery for backup...voltage is changed via Dip Switches on this model (never use the Tekkeon with a button to select or auto range) It goes 6-7hrs easy
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I have never used the R-44 but upgraded to a Dr-680 from a R-4, Prior to most recently upgrading to a Zacomm Maxx. I had to have the Dr-680's power components replaced once on my dime ($90). My deck was a few months out of warranty. I would have hoped they'd extended the warranty but they didn't. Ultimately the problem was a result of me removing the power from the deck while it was recording. I don't think removing the power from the deck during operation should have fried the power circuits but it did and i feel the price was justified. Anyway, the point i want to make is that aside from that the deck performed perfectly. I swear by the little guy because the pre's and A-d Sound Great , and for the money it definitely packs a punch. I had a problem with the mod's performed by Busman so unfortunately i wouldn't suggest getting your pre's modified but otherwise for the price you can't beat it.
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I have never used the R-44 but upgraded to a Dr-680 from a R-4, Prior to most recently upgrading to a Zacomm Maxx. I had to have the Dr-680's power components replaced once on my dime ($90). My deck was a few months out of warranty. I would have hoped they'd extended the warranty but they didn't. Ultimately the problem was a result of me removing the power from the deck while it was recording. I don't think removing the power from the deck during operation should have fried the power circuits but it did and i feel the price was justified. Anyway, the point i want to make is that aside from that the deck performed perfectly. I swear by the little guy because the pre's and A-d Sound Great , and for the money it definitely packs a punch. I had a problem with the mod's performed by Busman so unfortunately i wouldn't suggest getting your pre's modified but otherwise for the price you can't beat it.
What problem(s) did you have with the Busman modded version? I had two Busman modded DR680 recorders and had power issues with both. I never attributed the problem to the mod, so I'm curious to get more info. thanks.