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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: iammattp on October 22, 2013, 10:31:58 PM
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Looking to get into this and trying to get an idea of everything I'll need to get. Looking at getting the Tascam DRD2. Was gonna call it done for a start at that but after hearing the recordings of it vanilla would like to shoot a bit higher. So setting a budget at $250 on the high end, a bit cheaper would be nice of course, what's a good pair of mics to grab? I'm alright with buying used.
edit: Should have been a bit more specific, I plan on using it to record electric guitars and shit, Getting good acoustic sound would be good too but not my priority. I don't know if that makes a difference but I'd hate to complicate things by being vague. Also I tried the search function but wasn't really able to find much about entry level mics. My bad if it's a wasted post so many mics though and without a few pointers it's a bit overwhelming. haha.
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Assuming stealth...you can't go wrong with any of the Church mics. Well within your budget, too. Leaves you money for at least a battery box, if not a preamp.
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Assuming stealth...you can't go wrong with any of the Church mics. Well within your budget, too. Leaves you money for at least a battery box, if not a preamp.
I've been taping open for 4.5 years with Church-Audio mics. They are good for that, too.
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What kind of venues are you planning on recording in, and from which part of the room? One of your big decisions is going to be cardioids vs omni mics, and each work better in different conditions.
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bars/concert halls/fields. Just wherever I see music in general. From which part of the room? I guess where ever it sounds best? but if I can get a SBD out somewhere around there. I was looking at the CA-14,9100 package it comes with omni and cardioids. Would you want to give a brief description of the conditions that suit each type better? Also would I be better of getting a pre amp from else where?
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Everyone has their own opinion on this, but if I had to make a rule of thumb: If you're close up to the music, omnis will sound better. If you're farther back in the crowd and need to filter out crowd noise and room echo, cards will let you do that.
If you can afford to get both the CA-14 cards and omnis, that looks like an excellent deal that will allow you to have the best mic for whatever situation. (One caveat: the CA-14s are a bit big for discreetly clipping to a hat, if that's something you're considering.) I haven't used the 9100 preamp, but I know it's highly regarded around here.
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your strategy for picking mics should take into account your anticipated location for recording shows (i.e. OTS or FOB) and your tollerance for audience noise.
generally speaking...
- if you're going to be back by the soundboard or in the rear of the venue you'll want a more directional mic (i.e. hyper-cardioid or super-cardioid)
- if you're close to the stage/sound source you can go with a less directional mic (i.e. omni, cardioid or sub-cardioid)
- if you have a high tolerance for audience chatter stick with the onmi, sub-cardioid or cardioid patterns
- if audience chatter drives you crazy then stay away from the omni and the sub-cardioid patterns
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Good advice so far. These guys are more experienced than me but I started in the last couple years myself so I've been where you are recently.
The CA-14s + a CA-9100 or CA-9200 are a good place to start. I recommend getting both cards and omnis so you can see for yourself what the difference is. I find it's hard to grasp all the nuances without trying it myself. No need to go anywhere else for a pre-amp to begin unless you just want to. I started with CA-11s and CA-14s, ca-9000 and ca-9200, and a Sony PCM-M10. Great results for the amount of money invested and learned a lot.
I got hooked and now I'm in for a much bigger outlay of $$ :P
One thing to consider is if you might be interested in moving up to open taping or just mics which need 48v Phantom (P48) power you might consider something like the Naiant tinybox (http://naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html) instead of CA-9200 and get it configured for Plug-in Power (PIP at approximately 9v) and P48 so you have that option down the road and don't have to buy something else. Jon O'neil (Jon Stoppable here on TS) owns Naiant and frequents this board a lot. And you probably noticed Chris Church hangs out here too answering questions and stuff.
Either one is a good choice. There are probably others but I'm well familiar with these.
Good luck!
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^ Jon and Chris are very helpful and will give you honest feedback about their products. Neither will try to sell you something you don't need.
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As I've said elsewhere, if you are recording amplified music you don't really need the preamp. A battery box, to help the mics accept more decibels, is really all you need. The music's already amplified, so you don't need a preamp to amplify it more.
At anything with electric guitars (which the original poster mentioned recording), mics-->battery box-->Line-in does the job. Or mics-->battbox--Mic-In if for some reason you don't get enough gain through Line-in, but that's really unlikely at an electric show.
A preamp with the gain turned all the way down is basically a battery box minus $100 in your pocket.
If you are recording nature sounds or a quiet classical performance, and you don't like the sound of the preamp in your recorder, then by all means go for a preamp. But for a rock show with entry-level mics? No need.
I'm on record as preferring omnis for a more realistic sound. But that realism will include the audience noise that your brain tunes out during the show.
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If you had posted a poll instead of a question and just said 'budget = $250, what mics/preamp', faced with a specific choice, I'd guess that 90% of the responders would have said CA-14 + church preamp combo. It's the same answer given whenever anyone asks this question, which is probably about monthly. Not dissing your post, just saying that this is probably the most frequent question asked here and the answer is always the same. It's really a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned. For the money, this combo sounds just outstanding.
FWIW, most of the other discussion here about options would put you above your budget, so that's what I'm focusing on, though I agree with all of the comments provided.
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As Earmonger already said, if you're recording LOUDER electric guitars/rock bands, you'll be fine with a battery box and Church Audio mics. A preamp is a "nice to have" but isn't necessary. A lot of people around here are hung up on them. While I was running the last of my miniature mics, I ran a battery box for the last year-plus. If I ran into a situation where the levels were too low, I'd just switch the battery box output from LINE to MIC IN (with Plug In Power OFF) and that would solve my problem with low levels.
Frankly, I'd save the money and get a battery box with mics.
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I would strongly recommend taking a look at the Audio Technica series of small mics. The AT853's and the AT943's can be purchased new for under $200, and used for $150. I must say that I prefer them over the CA-14's when running 3-wire as opposed to 1/8" miniplug. They seem to breathe easier and have better top-end IMHO. Sometimes it's nice to be able to switch the capsules out on the fly depending on the venue conditions/location. And I don't always like to use wind screens when indoors. You don't have those options with the CA-14's.
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I would strongly recommend taking a look at the Audio Technica series of small mics. The AT853's and the AT943's can be purchased new for under $200, and used for $150. I must say that I prefer them over the CA-14's when running 3-wire as opposed to 1/8" miniplug. They seem to breathe easier and have better top-end IMHO. Sometimes it's nice to be able to switch the capsules out on the fly depending on the venue conditions/location. And I don't always like to use wind screens when indoors. You don't have those options with the CA-14's.
I'm starting to agree with this a little. I loved my ca14 cards when i used them all the time, but recently compared a few recordings with at853s (with the 4.7 mod) done in the same hat, and prefer the low end on the 853s. I had the 943s about 10 years ago and they were ok, but i think i'd go with the ca14s over those. All personal preference of course.
You really can't go wrong with any these choices.
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I only suggested the CA-xx mics simply because they'll be easier to come across, however, I would tend to agree that I prefer the 4.7k modded 853's (which were the last mics I ran before I moved to the AKG actives). As blg mentions, I also found the lower end to be cleaner and clearer on the 853's. The windscreen "issue" didn't matter to me as much with the CA-14 cards as I usually wanted them on, anyhow. :)
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I'll throw in another vote for the AT853's. Just got them recently (cards and omnis) and I've been very happy with the results and sound.
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i've been doing this on and off since the gd taper section in '94. i've used mostly audio tech n rhode mics, n found that in evry situation i've been in, my sound design mp-2 pre amp made evrything WAY better. even when it's real loud with of sound pressure. althuogh i'ts a dinosaur, I still use it.- my 2cents
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AT853 and CA14 both are great... but an used pair of Soundman OKMIIR would be another nice alternative for omni recordings....
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your strategy for picking mics should take into account your anticipated location for recording shows (i.e. OTS or FOB) and your tollerance for audience noise.
generally speaking...
- if you're going to be back by the soundboard or in the rear of the venue you'll want a more directional mic (i.e. hyper-cardioid or super-cardioid)
- if you're close to the stage/sound source you can go with a less directional mic (i.e. omni, cardioid or sub-cardioid)
- if you have a high tolerance for audience chatter stick with the onmi, sub-cardioid or cardioid patterns
- if audience chatter drives you crazy then stay away from the omni and the sub-cardioid patterns
Thats really good advice.