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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: ninjadave on November 04, 2013, 03:01:56 PM
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hello, looking for advice, might be moving to the new active options on one of these two mics, wondering if the price diff is worth it....i've heard some recordings with both, they sound a bit similar but it was diff styles of music and locations. i know Naiant has an AKG active, he doesn't produce the Gefell right? just Nick at Nbox does those? i know the cables are more, but its not that much more.....
is the M20 that much better? i've gotten quotes around $500 for the CK61 pair and $1450 for a pair of M20s. 3x the price, means 3x better? not sure.....anyone know where to find these cheaper if at all?
i'm looking to go mics>active cable>tinybox>sony M-10.
Probably going to sell my milabs and PMD661 if i do this....i really like the mics but getting tired of the bigger footprint and bodies on the Milabs.....i mostly stealth tape......tough with all that gear + interconnects....
any help or advice is appreciated. thanks.
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the Gefells are great mics, but so are the AKGs. regardless of price some prefer Gefells, others prefer AKGs. it's apples and oranges, but this is my opinion... unless you really prefer the sounds of the Gefells get the AKGs and use the money you save to buy more concert tickets so you can put that new quipment to good use. :-)
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Or save the extra money for nice preamp (e.g. Neve Portico 5012, my newest obsession).
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I think the Gefells are better mics, period. I'm not a fan of the AKG house sound and that sizzle on the top end. So while I like the Gefells more, I'm not sure they are 3x better. 2x better, sure, but 3x better is a stretch.
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thanks for the input.
if i can get a setup where i can eliminate the bodies, i might just keep the milabs. going to check with Jon at Naiant to see what can be done if anything. i think the Gefells are comparable to what i have but at considerable more price to move to an active Gefell setup......might not be worth it right now, esp if i can get the bodies out and not degrade the sound of the Milabs.....
more later if that comes to reality. thanks.
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the Gefells are great mics, but so are the AKGs. regardless of price some prefer Gefells, others prefer AKGs. it's apples and oranges, but this is my opinion... unless you really prefer the sounds of the Gefells get the AKGs and use the money you save to buy more concert tickets so you can put that new quipment to good use. :-)
/\ :)
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Really a personal preference thing. Some swear by their Gefells, others not so much (same being true of most other brands). I think it is hard to beat the AKG line for the combo of quality and value.
FWIW I ran Gefell hypers for a month and really did not like them. Quality of the build was outstanding, just sound-wise it didn't work for me with the combo of gear I had. I've run a lot of different brands of gear, including AKGs (though not the CKx line) but even having said that, it's a little hard for anyone to tell someone else what to get when they don't know their ears or their source material.
For stealthing, can't hurt to start with AKGs. They're a well-respected brand, the quality is good, and if you hate them, they're easy to unload because tons of people have them and they're a good value. Gefells are a bit more of a "specialty" product.
IMHO neither of them are as good as the Milabs you already own, but....
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The body of the Gefell features electrical components which influence the sound. Without those components the actives are unlikely to sound the same.
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The body of the Gefell features electrical components which influence the sound. Without those components the actives are unlikely to sound the same.
Your right they sound nothing alike MY actives sound better!! Have your actives made it out of your basement yet? :P
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:lol:
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Your right they sound nothing alike MY actives sound better!! Have your actives made it out of your basement yet? :P
You mean Bill's active buffer design, right?
His design is simpler than the Schoeps buffer circuit. It is easier to build, but the distortion is higher.
I think most people with Gefell's want them to sound like Gefells, not something "nothing alike".
In what ways would you say it sounds better than Gefell bodies? Is there a full body comp somewhere?
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Your right they sound nothing alike MY actives sound better!! Have your actives made it out of your basement yet? :P
You mean Bill's active buffer design, right?
His design is simpler than the Schoeps buffer circuit. It is easier to build, but the distortion is higher.
I think most people with Gefell's want them to sound like Gefells, not something "nothing alike".
In what ways would you say it sounds better than Gefell bodies? Is there a full body comp somewhere?
I don't need comps to tell me what sounds good..where are your actives so we can compare your design if you think yours are so great?
Bill has made some of the best recordings my ears have ever heard and if I'm not mistaken you even have a bill box..you must not think it sounds good since you sold all your other pres and kept it..you want some comps..send me your gefells and I'll be happy to make some comps of a concert and not a cho cho train going down the track..Brian please keep your comments to yourself..unless you are willing to loan you gefells for a comp then your opinions don't mean shit!
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Good luck on finding naiant actives for the akg mics right now
There is a thread with like 8 or 9 people looking for them
You didn't mention it so I am not sure if you are aware up nick has akg actives too
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Your right they sound nothing alike MY actives sound better!! Have your actives made it out of your basement yet? :P
You mean Bill's active buffer design, right?
His design is simpler than the Schoeps buffer circuit. It is easier to build, but the distortion is higher.
I think most people with Gefell's want them to sound like Gefells, not something "nothing alike".
In what ways would you say it sounds better than Gefell bodies? Is there a full body comp somewhere?
I don't need comps to tell me what sounds good..where are your actives so we can compare your design if you think yours are so great?
Bill has made some of the best recordings my ears have ever heard and if I'm not mistaken you even have a bill box..you must not think it sounds good since you sold all your other pres and kept it..you want some comps..send me your gefells and I'll be happy to make some comps of a concert and not a cho cho train going down the track..Brian please keep your comments to yourself..unless you are willing to loan you gefells for a comp then your opinions don't mean shit!
The topic was the sound of the Gefell bodies.
You want to claim that Bill's design sounds better than full Gefell bodies? Cool - most of us would like to hear those recordings. Or even the specifics of how you think it sounds better, regardless of distortion levels.
But to launch into yet another personal attack and tirade, making all sorts of demands that I send you my gear, that I not post my opinions. Grow up.
Like anyone else here, I am entitled to post my comments and opinons. Especially in threads where people are asking for, you know, opinions on gear purchases. I have made and posted as many gear comps as anyone on this site, perhaps more.
The RMOD? I haven't run it in many, many years. I mainly run a psp2, usually with full bodies. I'd sell my RMOD if there was a market for it, and it had some value. But few people want RMODs or nboxes since the PFA came out.
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Your right they sound nothing alike MY actives sound better!! Have your actives made it out of your basement yet? :P
You mean Bill's active buffer design, right?
His design is simpler than the Schoeps buffer circuit. It is easier to build, but the distortion is higher.
I think most people with Gefell's want them to sound like Gefells, not something "nothing alike".
In what ways would you say it sounds better than Gefell bodies? Is there a full body comp somewhere?
I don't need comps to tell me what sounds good..where are your actives so we can compare your design if you think yours are so great?
Bill has made some of the best recordings my ears have ever heard and if I'm not mistaken you even have a bill box..you must not think it sounds good since you sold all your other pres and kept it..you want some comps..send me your gefells and I'll be happy to make some comps of a concert and not a cho cho train going down the track..Brian please keep your comments to yourself..unless you are willing to loan you gefells for a comp then your opinions don't mean shit!
The topic was the sound of the Gefell bodies.
You want to claim that Bill's design sounds better than full Gefell bodies? Cool - most of us would like to hear those recordings. Or even the specifics of how you think it sounds better, regardless of distortion levels.
But to launch into yet another personal attack and tirade, making all sorts of demands that I send you my gear, that I not post my opinions. Grow up.
Like anyone else here, I am entitled to post my comments and opinons. Especially in threads where people are asking for, you know, opinions on gear purchases. I have made and posted as many gear comps as anyone on this site, perhaps more.
The RMOD? I haven't run it in many, many years. I mainly run a psp2, usually with full bodies. I'd sell my RMOD if there was a market for it, and it had some value. But few people want RMODs or nboxes since the PFA came out.
Not that I feel the need to explain myself to you..I know for a fact that you have continued to paint the actives in a bad way..it's quite obvious that you are pissed about us taking it to completion and of the cables that are out there not one person is unhappy with them tho you continually shit all over them..you sir need to grow up..I have also been told that you have talked all sorts of shit about our products via Pms so you call yourself a man? Do me favor and go shit in your hat..
Good day sir..no more from me!
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Can't we all get along? I LOVE my NBob/PFA AKG actives and use them all the time.
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Can't we all get along? I LOVE my NBob/PFA AKG actives and use them all the time.
Er, based on the amount of gear in your sig Ted, is it possible to claim you own any gear you use "all the time" ;D >:D >:D
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Can't we all get along? I LOVE my NBob/PFA AKG actives and use them all the time.
agreed
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Not that I feel the need to explain myself to you..I know for a fact that you have continued to paint the actives in a bad way..it's quite obvious that you are pissed about us taking it to completion and of the cables that are out there not one person is unhappy with them tho you continually shit all over them..you sir need to grow up..I have also been told that you have talked all sorts of shit about our products via Pms so you call yourself a man? Do me favor and go shit in your hat..
Good day sir..no more from me!
I know nothing of the history between you guys, but your comments certainly seem like the childish ones.
Seeing your posts would make me NOT want to purchase any product produced by you, no matter what another person said about them.
To the OP, the AKG ck capsules are great sounding microphones. I think the Gefell sound is a little different, maybe described as smoother. But the Gefell is more of a boutique item, and the AKG is more of a workhorse.
Both sound great, although I've not heard them without the standard mic bodies.
Good luck with your decision.
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When it comes to microphones, I have always rated (in alphabetical order): DPA, Gefell, Neumann, Schoeps and Sennheiser (MKH series) as the very best and pretty well equal overall - just different in concept and design.
AKG do seem to be getting more and more stuff made in the far East now, and I tend to rate them good, but lower than the top-5 above.
The Gefell SMS2000 series are excellent mics and worth every penny of the price. But it does, in the end, come down to personal choice and if the mic. has the sound that you personally like.
Actually, I was at Gefell this week as it's the 85th anniversary of when Georg Neumann started the company, Georg Neumann KG, in 1928 (Georg Neumann KG own Gefell - Neumann Berlin is now owned by Sennheiser :D )
A Brief History of Microtech Gefell (http://www.sound-link.co.uk/pdf/A%20Brief%20History%20of%20Microtech%20Gefell.pdf)
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Both are excellent microphones. I own Gefells and have heard more AKG tapes than anything else (probably because they are so popular). It really comes down to price and what you can afford. If price is an issue, get the AKGs. You will not be disappointed. If money is no object, get the Gefells. I prefer the Gefells to AKGs. Whether you can stomach the price difference is entirely up to you. This was an easier decision to make before Gefells started to significantly raise their prices over the past decade. The good news is that each microphone holds its resale value well so you can get rid of them easily if you decide that you do not like them.
There are a few other factors that go into the calculus. Customer service is one of them. I dropped a Gefell capsule once and had to have it serviced. I could not send it anywhere in the U.S. so I had to send it back to Germany for a rebuild at a cost of 400 Euros. Expensive mistake to be sure, but you may want to investigate whether you can have AKGs serviced for lower cost or in the U.S. On the other hand, Gefell customer service is incredible and they were able to take me through every step of the process, including locating the proper shipping method to send the capsule in and return it to Mali, which is where I was posted at the time.
Another factor is whether you plan to be taping for the long haul or if you are just getting your feet wet. I decided from the beginning that this was a hobby that I was going to pursue for a long time so I went ahead and got the more expensive option instead of flipping multiple sets of microphones. If you are unsure of whether you want to do this for a long time, go with the cheaper option and see if you enjoy it. It's the process and the music that I enjoy more than the gear anyway.
Finally, keep in mind that location is pretty much everything in taping. I have some recordings made with CSBs that blow away a lot of my other tapes with my big rig. The reason for this is location, positioning, and luck. The gear really doesn't have much to do with anything after a certain point.
John: How was the Gefell 85th celebration? I received an invite but could not make it. I need to plan a pilgrimage up there one day.
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I have Microtech Gefell M300's and AKG C-480's with CK-61 and CK-63 capsules and PFA actives. I go along with Jamos who said the AKG's are workhorses and Gefells are more boutique.
The Gefells pickup a sweeter mid-range and the high-end is well balanced. The AKG's pickup what I call a scooped upper mid-range and have a more aggressive high-end.
In a very nice sounding room with a good mix and good microphone placement it's hard to beat the sound of Microtech Gefell microphone recordings.
I find the AKGs more forgiving of placement and room acoustics. For example, the Gefells can sound muddy in a bassy venue or with a muddy mix. The AKG's often cut through and allow better recordings in those less than idea situations. That's why I think they are so popular with concert tapers.
If just starting out, get the AKG's they are cheaper and there is the option to run them as actives on the cheap. Move to the Gefells or other more expensive mics after you've recorded a bunch and have developed a preference for how you like your recordings to sound.
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I've had Schoeps, Gefells, and different sets of AKG's. I needed money, so I sold the Schoeps and Gefells, and I kick myself every show for selling the Gefells. But my experience is using bodies, which is apples versus oranges to various active setups. I think the simple answer is "if you don't know which you want, get the AKG's for 1/3 the cost".
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There are a few other factors that go into the calculus. Customer service is one of them. I dropped a Gefell capsule once and had to have it serviced. I could not send it anywhere in the U.S. so I had to send it back to Germany for a rebuild at a cost of 400 Euros. Expensive mistake to be sure, but you may want to investigate whether you can have AKGs serviced for lower cost or in the U.S. On the other hand, Gefell customer service is incredible and they were able to take me through every step of the process, including locating the proper shipping method to send the capsule in and return it to Mali, which is where I was posted at the time.
I have always preferred to have a microphone fixed by the manufacturer, whoever it is.
With Gefell microphones, I always recommend sending them back to Germany (the national distributor will help) as, after repair, they go back in the anechoic chamber and are checked to make sure they comply to the original spec., which Gefell keeps on file. So you *know* it's done properly. Also - if Gefell damage a capsule while in repair, it's replaced free of charge (I'm not sure what an independent repairer would do in this case).
John: How was the Gefell 85th celebration? I received an invite but could not make it. I need to plan a pilgrimage up there one day.
Excellent - even though I missed the flight due to massive traffic jams due to accidents on the M40 and M25 and decided to drive instead - round trip of 1,400 miles!
The event was great and the opening of the Georg Neumann Museum was extremely interesting with samples of the very early Neumann microphones back to 1928 - including the famous CMV3 bottle mic.
Jörg Wuttke (recently retired from Schoeps) was there and we had a great chat, I have known him for many years.
Interesting speeches during the dinner and I learned how Gefell kept in touch with Georg Neumann in Berlin after the end of the war; still working close until, finally the Iron Curtain and the Stasi put an end to the contact until 1989 when the wall came down.
Yes, an excellent time. ;D